Trees and the Enneagram: A Conversation with my Arborist hubby! | Guest Spencer Wicks Enneagram Nine

Today I have the BEST guest on the show...  my husband! Even though this podcast is over five years old, he has only been on the show three other times and I’m so thankful he agreed to appear a fourth time and talk about trees! 

My husband Spencer is an Enneagram type 9 and a tree climbing, chainsaw swinging arborist, thus the topic of trees and how we can tie the Enneagram into that topic.

Are you ready to have the curtain peeled back a little on our marriage and get a sneak peek into our marriage dynamics? I can wholeheartedly say this one was also a fun one to record as we get a little silly and tie the Enneagram into trees! But rest assured we do also have lots of serious things to say in this episode about powerful analogies you can learn from trees that relate to our personal walks with the Lord. Enjoy!

Past episodes with Spencer:

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/simply-wholehearted-podcast/id1216920050?i=1000553906705 (part 1 with our family) 

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/simply-wholehearted-podcast/id1216920050?i=1000554166332 (part 2 with our family)

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/simply-wholehearted-podcast/id1216920050?i=1000449935115 (money episode) 

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The Enneagram can name your patterns. It can't set you free from them. That's the difference between insight and transformation, and it's the whole focus of this summit.

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https://www.simplywholehearted.com/wholehearted-2026

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SPEAKER_00 1:38

Welcome to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast. I am so glad you are joining me today for this fun conversation that you are about to hear. If you're a faithful listener, thank you so much for your support of the show. An awesome gift that you could give me is a really nice rating and review on Apple Podcasts. This always encourages others to give this podcast a listen so they can too be influenced and impacted by it. It also helps me with special guests who look at the ratings and they want to make sure that this is the right fit for them. Now, if you are a first-time listener, I'm so glad that you're here and I'm so glad you're giving this show a go. I know it's easy to stick to the podcast that we just know and enjoy, so I don't take it lightly that you're testing this one out and you're using some of your limited listening time to hear what I have to say. So I pray that this episode is exactly what you need to hear today, and that you hear the Holy Spirit whispering to you extra insights as you listen along. Today I have the best guest on the show. And now, even though this podcast is over five years old, this guest has only been on the show three other times. And I'm so thankful that he's agreed to appear a fourth time to talk about trees. I'll link any of the past episodes that he was a guest in the show notes for you to check out too. And way back, we did a finance episode together because we love teaching financial peace and all the Dave Ramsey stuff that you've heard about. Yep, well, it impacted our lives greatly. And then this guest was also on part one and part two of the five-year anniversary episodes that the rest of my family did along with us, and we were talking about our experience at Disneyland this past spring. So who's this guest? Well, if you haven't guessed already, it is my husband Spencer. He is an Enneagram type 9 and a tree-climbing chainsaw swinging arborist. Thus, the topic of trees and how we can tie the Enneagram into that topic made perfect sense. So, are you ready to have the curtain peeled back a little on our marriage and get a sneak peek into our marriage dynamics? I think married couple episodes are really fun to listen to on podcasts, and I can wholeheartedly say that this one was also a fun one to record. As you hear us get a little silly, maybe even a little giggly, as we tie in the Enneagram to different types of trees. But rest assured, we also do have lots of serious things to say in this episode about powerful analogies that you can learn from trees that relate to our personal walks with the Lord. I hope that you enjoy this. Hi, I'm Amy Wicks, a Jesus and Enneagram enthusiast. As a wife, mom of three humans, and a fur baby, I get it. Juggling entrepreneurship in a family is challenging, but I believe the Lord does want your work to be enjoyable. As an Enneagram type 7, I am all about the fun factor. And this podcast is here to help you put the joy back into working mom life. So you can see 1 Timothy 6.17 come to pass in your own unique time. It's a verse that says, God has given us all things to enjoy. All? Well friends, it means all. Motherhood, work from home life, or work out of the home life. With the Lord's help, there's truly a way to feel calm, balance, joy, clarity, and peace in any arena of life. Welcome to the Simply Full Hearted Podcast, where you can expect solo-style and interview style episodes that are full of faith-based concepts, simple ideas, Enneagram insights, alongside practical tips to help you put that smile back on your face when it comes to doing life with Jesus. Now get your headphones and head to that big pile of dishes in the sink. Or maybe that bathroom that needed cleaning two weeks ago. And let's get to learning together. Spencer, welcome to my closet. I'm so glad you could join me here in the mess and record a special conversation today.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Good to be here.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

I realized the other day as we were preparing to record this conversation that it I think it's been exactly three years ago today that we recorded our last conversation. Yep. So it's taken a little while for you to be willing to do this again. But I think that my friends are really going to benefit from this expertise that you're going to offer. Looking forward to Well, three years ago we shared our financial story, which led to an invitation to join us for financial peace. And honestly, just we would hope that our story of our financial journey would encourage others to whether join financial peace or know that they could get their house in order and that they could be vulnerable on this topic. But today you get to speak about something that you actually got your degree in and you went to school for.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Yeah, I have a degree in forestry from Iowa State almost 20, a little over 20 years ago. So I've been we're a little old. I know. Every time I go back on campus, I feel very old. But yeah, I've been practicing arbiculture for the last 20 plus years, kind of excited to talk about something that I have a little bit of knowledge on.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

I think it's really neat to and not everyone gets to use their degree, but how you utilize it. And even though maybe there's people in your field who don't need a degree, but you've been able to stay true to a passion. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Yeah, I felt an obligation to pay off my student road is something that I actually learned.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

No.

SPEAKER_01 7:32

It it really has become a passion over the years to do this industry and still really enjoy it. And I still find myself every day learning something new. So that's what keeps me engaged. And there's always a disease or insect or some ailment to a plant that I am always trying to figure out. And so it's just a fun puzzle that I get to apply all the learned knowledge to to figure out what's what's going on. So it's a fun industry.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

As you were explaining all of this, I suddenly realized probably there is a friend or two or ten who are listening and going, what is arbiculture? What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_01 8:12

So arborculture is the study of trees or the caretaking of trees. So arbor, the reword arbor is tree. So a lot of cities have Arbor Day, and that really what that is just a recognition of the trees in the city. And a lot of times there's printing events or some sort of event surrounding the care of trees.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

So your title officially would be arborist. What does that look like maybe in your 20-plus career as far as the care and the maintenance of trees?

SPEAKER_01 8:40

What's changed over the years in arbiculture in general encompasses a lot of different aspects of tree care taking. So it just encompasses so much. And that's under different settings, like municipalities or city management, or even like forest service that manages really large-scale stands of timber or parks, service parks, things like that, or even down to just hiring some an arborist to come and do an evaluation or prescription of what to do with the trees on the property.

SPEAKER_00 9:22

Yeah. So really, while your experience has been within the US 50 states, right, and actually not some of the states, that would be super fun and very different than what the Midwest experience is. Really, arbiculture is a worldwide thing because there are trees everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yeah, it's actually the care of trees is actually in some ways more taken seriously in European countries than it is here in the United States. We're trying to play catch up in a lot of ways in our different methodologies of pruning and things like that. So we're kind of playing catch-up compared to a lot of other countries in Germany, kind of the way on a lot of applications.

SPEAKER_00 10:02

Wow, that could be a whole nother tangent in Rabbit Trail that I won't dive into, but I did learn something new. I think we've talked about it numerous times. And at even one point in time, I was just doing a blog way before the podcast. But there was something stirring inside of me and you when we were looking at the growth pattern of trees, the cycle of trees, realizing that as all things in creation are representative of our creator, it's also a lot of times representative of growth and life in Christ ultimately. And we can find the story, find the allegory, we can find how it relates and what we can learn from it. So I remember years ago, we were on some road trip somewhere to see family, probably, and I started asking you all these questions about tree growth and and we were kind of flushing out an idea of what does it look like to share an example of life in Christ and relate it to essentially to tree growth. But the whole conversation today isn't going to be about that, but I really wanted to touch on it and I opened up both a little bit of my own thoughts. But would you share, and just again, your 20-plus year of experience with trees, studying the trees, what you've learned from creation, about the creator or or even life in Christ and living wholeheartedly in that way?

SPEAKER_01 11:26

Yeah, I think we talked about this actually last time we did a podcast together. But Idiogram helps helps us understand our nature, the way God made us, and it's very different from somebody else's, even though we all have a lot of basic similarities. Our personalities are different, our stories are different, our childhoods are different. So we react and act a certain way based on a lot of those attributes. But just like that, trees, for example, diagnosing trees disease. The reason a tree is acting a certain way is has to do with its the type of tree that it is, its personality, or the personal traits of that type of tree. You have to understand that first, identify what the issue is, and then be able to treat that issue. So so understanding every type of tree, and that's why it's a constant ongoing learning process for me is understanding why a tree grows the way it does, or what you know, where it grows best. And um if it's out outside of its zone, then it's gonna it's gonna react to certain things a lot different than a native tree would. So under s just understanding a history of the tree, understanding what's growing patterns and its resistance to certain diseases helps me understand or better diagnose what's going on and then helps figure out a treatment for it. It's understanding somebody better based on who God made them. It's going to it's gonna help you build to not treat, but just understand, have a better understanding of why we react the way we do it.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Just when I think what I say goes in one year and out the other, I find out that you have been paying attention. No, that's so good. I love that. It's it's actually profoundly true and simple, but but there's a lot there to say. Now, for you as well, I mean you could go off of either thing, but just in a tree's growth and a tree's cycle of life, what have you learned to take from that that you've maybe applied in your own spiritual walk?

SPEAKER_01 13:33

Every tree starts with a seed. And it starts with a and then turns into a sapling, and then it finds good soil to uh you know take root into and then it grows from there and it's just gonna get larger and larger. There's certain things that you just can't if there's an issue later on that could have been corrected at the very the earlier, say for example, of tree planting, the earlier you get to setting the root system up from from say from a pot, the sooner you can, you know, get the roots in such a way that they can grow out into the soil rather than growing in circles. So a lot of plants will get root-bound, so they'll just kind of grow, they'll hit the side of the pot and they'll start to grow in a circle. And the sooner you can get those cut off and flushed out, it'll grow into the soil and um just it'll just set the tree up for a much longer life. So really just starting from the seed to to maturity, the sooner you can kind of do things the in a healthy way. It sets the tree up for a healthier, longer life. There's numero I mean, everything about a tree is related to spirituality and uh child rearing and just issues we face in life.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

And so there's just so many so many things.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

And you could just literally remove every new aspect and every phase of a tree's life to human experience and even loss.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

So what I hear you say is there's a spin-off podcast that I need to do every week, some new aspect about trees and spiritual life. If y'all could see him, you would know he's like, no way, please.

SPEAKER_01 15:11

Please limit my interaction with stuff like this.

SPEAKER_00 15:16

With the on that note, again, obviously, as you said and I'll lead it to, there's numerous amounts and numerous ways to tie in what we can find and discover and learn about. You have 20 plus years and you feel like you're still learning something new every day. I wanted to, and this was really inspired by one of my clients, Kristen Herman, a shout out to her. And we might link, she has a blog of her own. And we were Spencer was talking to she and her husband about trees, some trees in their yard. She had also wanted to explore this topic as well, how what we can learn from growth and root system and so many different aspects of how that can speak back to spiritual principles. But that sparked a conversation that then led to this hey, we really need to finally have a conversation and relate enneagram and trees together. And while there's a number of things that we could do, and maybe someday in the future, today we're going to, for the fun of it, because the change of seasons is upon us, it's officially fall, leaves are turning colors throughout the country. And so I will have to pause and say on the other side of the globe, and some of my friends who I coach, they're experiencing a change of a different season and they're going from, let's see, winter to spring, right? Yeah, winter to spring, which is hard to wrap my mind around, but it's real and that's how it works. But as the change of season is upon us, and for us here in the Midwest of the US, it's becoming fall and the leaves are slowly turning and all of them go at their own pace. And ivy tends to go first and then bushes and then the trees and all the trees at their own pace. But we just thought it would be fun, or I thought it would be fun, and Spencer was willing to go along with the typing of trees. Now, as in all things, trees are inanimate objects, somewhat. They are just part of creation. They're not a person, they're not a being. And while they have an essence of personality because of their unique diversities and differences, they are not a person. So there are limits to the typing process, and there's even limits to our connection of personality types to trees. But as we talked just the other other day over breakfast at Housewife Casey, shout out to Anna Sorge and her crew there. We it was just better. It was a better conversation than I could have hoped. It really started out as a simple hey, I'll give you a little description about these types, what tree comes to mind, and we fleshed it out from there.

SPEAKER_02 17:47

And I am so excited.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

I think you and I especially was the hardest one to figure out, but the it's now our favorite. So the Enneagram type five, we listened for that one because that was it really did take us. It was on the drive home that suddenly it dawned on Spencer and we got to talking about I'm like, oh my gosh, it's just beyond perfect. It's so good, so fitting for it. So we're going to attempt to share this information with you, yet entertaining, to highlight the types and relate them to a tree that hopefully you're familiar with, or you can look up and Google and see what we're talking about, maybe as it relates to your types or your spouse type or your kids' type or your friends' types. So I thought we would start at the Enneagram eight. Again, it's not because we have to go first because the eights are so demanding and all of that. It just works really well to go through the gut triad first. So we're going to talk about the eight, nine, and one, then the two, three, four, and then the five, six, and seven. And as a seven, I'll be willing to go last. It's okay. So uh I thought it would be fun to talk about the tree first, and then I'll you share the qualities and the character traits that stuff to you, and I'll kind of share back how I see it as relates to that type.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Yeah, yeah, I think you when we were talking about the sequence decided to give one word. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

You said make it simple. What word?

SPEAKER_01 19:09

Make it real simple. The first was the challenger. And immediately when I thought of the challenger, I thought of, and these are Midwestern trees, so growing zones four, five, six. We have the great benefit in Kansas City, but we can actually grow some northern species, and then we can also grow some southern species because of where we're located. So we get a nice blend. So if you are north or south of here, we probably have this plant. Um, but then you get out in tropical zones and it's totally different. So uh but the pear tree is it can be real pretty in the spring. It has like flower if the flower stinks to high end. But they're pretty. But they're pretty. The pear tree kind of has a harder shell to it or has exterior. Um, but it's real brittle on the inside, so the like it doesn't have a lot of structure. So like if you're felling one, it it just tends to break real easy. If there's a storm, it's like the first tree to break. It's just very wooded, but it does have a hard, kind of hard shell to it. But uh and then you can cut it down and it would just come right back. So it just kind of has that resilience as well. It's just always gonna be kind of driving back.

SPEAKER_00 20:16

Yeah. Yeah. One of the that was one of the aspects that I said at first. So the challenger, yet they're they have a maybe a tougher exterior or seem hard nose about their boundaries and know how to draw the line and push the limits. But there's a softness and vulnerability and a tenderness on the inside. And so, at least in my experience with friends, with even a daughter who's this type, where they give that appearance. And so it's surprising when things crush them, when they feel deeply, when there is a strong emotional response, even because they present oftentimes that type of exterior, and you don't know how vulnerable they are on the inside. And so there's that, but then on the flip side, the resilience. I think eights the narrative, their childhood experience, or maybe even their childhood wounding is a thought that they have to, that no one else is going to stand up for them, to defend them, to protect them. So their defenses are really high. But all of that being said, in light of that experience, in light of that story, they felt that they had to persevere. So there's the resilience to them where they may have been knocked down by life, abandoned or rejected or harmed in some way, but they've gotten back up and kept going.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Oh really? That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 21:43

But they're they're they're hard to stop though.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

Yeah, you can't stop them. And of course, here I'll just pause of saying the pruning process, which you have been involved with the majority of your career. You go in and you were gonna talk about that later as it relates to some other trees, but there's um there's sometimes the softening that you would do in the pruning process. And I think that relates the pruner is the Lord oftentimes in our life, and pruning the branches and softening us and elements like that. We're not gonna relate you to God in this moment, but yeah, but we say softening.

SPEAKER_01 22:19

Actually, I want to correct you, you're a little more abrasive with your pruning.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

So you're sometimes, yeah, we're you're a little more extreme with the pruning process, but it tends to come back like really strong. Okay. Okay, that's good to know. Yeah. So I didn't know what you meant by soften. Right. Uh it's it's soft on the inside, but it's you have to be pretty aggressive and abrasive with the pruning process.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

But it responds a lot to it.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Okay. The pear tree. Oh, okay. Yeah, we did talk about that. That you would have to be really blunt.

SPEAKER_01 22:52

You have to be very blunt, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

Okay. Very blunt in the printing process of the pear tree.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:58

Which that makes total sense. Yeah. Come on, you guys, are you not following this? Are you just not geeking out? Like me. Okay, Enneagram 9, which for those who don't know yet, I probably said this in my intro, but you are nine. So I've thought of a lot of different ones, but this one that you came up with spot on.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Yeah, this might relate to some of maybe our friends in the mountains. But uh, you'll get into really high altitudes and you get a what's called a monoculture where you just get the same species that grows, and then uh something comes along a lot of times and just kind of wipes out that species, and then a new one pops up. But we thought the fir tree had less softness to a its pyramidal. shape so it has carries in such a way that it kind of brushes that snow off. Um I don't know if that relates to a nine or not but and then there's just a kind of like when there is snow and there's kind of a calmness to it.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:50

But more than anything it's like they merge, they kind of all merge together and they're there's a softness to their needles. And I bring in a good fragrance.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Yeah, really a good fragrance. There you go. Yeah if you want to picture fur think of the idyllic hallmark movie scene where they're like taking a landscape video of evergreens covered in snow that holds the shape just well and picked a serene setting to the holiday hallmark movie. The furs also there is an element because nines tend to merge can be good can not be great can be harmful as well but there is an element going back to the monocle did you call it monoculture.

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Which can actually be uh a detriment to a species if there's not diversity around it.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Yeah where they're absorbing too much of the same nutrients from the one thing that kind of comes in it's detrimental to that monoculture it can wipe everything out.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

And so you'd want you it wants to be around diversity.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Okay. It wants to be around other things that are for the thriving it needs to diversify and hold their own but maybe they would tend to merge and just have their own which is comfortable but long term not healthy. Food for thought there's some deep stuff. Okay. Enneagram one.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

We said maple tree um no no there's different varieties of maples but the kind of your standard maple wants to have one good central leader and then wants to have smaller opposing scaffolding branches that are smaller in diameter. So like less less dominance than the central leader. And so a good quality maple will have one good central leader kind of that perfectionist with the smaller opposing branches and what happens a lot of times is co-dominant limbs that form at a really young age that have to be pruned out so they can free encourage that that central leader. And so I think the word that you gave was perfectionist and that was the thing that kind of made me think you know that they thought maybe a maple would be a good selection for that.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

And even what you just alluded to in in your field guiding the maple for to balance there is a striving and a desire for balance and as a one now balance is this just recently did a podcast about balance and how it's really about like rhythm than it is about perfection getting this exact right thing to go perfectly. But obviously the maple there's hundreds of varieties right you were kind of at first really there's thousands of varieties maybe there's hundreds so there's all sorts of maples out there but the the root of it is kind of all of them sharing the similarity of the balance of the trunk to branches to use layman's term. They called it lead lead and what did you so kind of good climbing material. Yeah for sure absolutely and maples for those of you who are familiar in the Midwest of course are brilliantly colored they are just stunning.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

They really make fall what we imagine I think ultimately so they they definitely have their well really important role to play in the change of seasons ultimately okay enneagram two we chose so the board you gave was helper and one of the probably the most multi-used or diverse trees is probably the oak tree. Yeah a lot of oaks here in the Midwest and there's probably even more down south but yeah the oak tree has it's slow grower but it has but its interior is very hard. It has a lot of uses for wood products for high quality wood products or um you can furn it with great burning wood good smoking woods it's used for flavoring for flavoring so it's a really great producer.

SPEAKER_00 27:54

It's a helper in so many ways like it helps yeah helps with so many different types it supports many levels of the ecosystem really from the just the ground up yeah which I love. Yeah so for shade it's one of the prettiest trees in my opinion the way that they're shaped the the white oak is one of the prettiest trees when it's a really old one it's just every time I see one that's really old and has good has good structure I have to stop and just look because it's just there's just something to them that's just so like the best I love that for the Enneagram too as well they they have a desire the two three four have a desire for significance and just even that noteworthy element the oak again so many different varieties and we have a limited skew even in the Midwest whereas you branch out you'll find more but I think it oak might feel common there's an element where it goes oh aren't there oaks everywhere but to look a little bit deeper and go, no, it's unique each one is so unique. And the fact that it supports and aids and contributes to all the different levels of the ecosystem is pretty phenomenal. So very noteworthy.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

I go unnoticed a lot of times but they're super important.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

Yep that's good. We see you in Museum too all right type three I was really excited about this one.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Yeah we driven by success I think was that we were I think we landed on aspen trees and some of the reasons for that are they pretty quick growers. They uh their leaves are kind of showy like very like the quaking aspen the leaflet literally like shake on the petiole of the of the stem of the of the sort of it like flaps back and forth.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

If you look at an aerial picture or video of an aspen growth it's the rustling of the leaves and the waving of it is akin to say a body of water where there's the shimmeriness and the flowing and it there's a ripple effect. It's really hard to describe definitely look it up because it's breathtaking. Now you and I have my got years in Colorado you've lived in Colorado so we've seen aspen groves in a unique way that I don't know anywhere else in the country has aspen groves like it. They just can grow really well there. But they're they're breathtaking ultimately when we get to see it it's just wow there it's a stunning display of change and growth.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

Yeah they're actually it's the the largest living organism is the aspen because they all grow from loot graphs from each other. So that's why you see them like kind of a canyon they're all that's all basically one tree. I didn't know that those little trees off shoots offshoots off the off the root system. But they've been able to ensure but they're all interconnected all the aspect so yeah they usually they're the first tree to change too yes we did talk about that. Primarily because of where they're at because they're growing seasons so short but they are ones that tend to grow to to change first. So what's interesting they actually mixed in a lot of time with furs.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

Oh the nine which the three and the nine there's quite a connection there actually for both reciprocal and where we will talk about this more and there's other ways to relate to this that the three can go to the nine in this in stress but then also in growth and so I was going to ask this and that idea okay so the aspen has a shorter growing season from spring to fall that's the growing season winter then for the aspen tends to be longer.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

What happens especially as they're all grafted in together what does that look like usually for the wintering well they just they just go dormant um and uh but they just it kind of coexist with the with that type of with the fir tree or spruce.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:59

Another interesting kind of fact is they have there's kind of a powder to the exterior there's a quality that's kind of a sunblocking quality. But it actually has the bark of it is really bright white so it kind of shows off in contrast there is a differentiate factor to it opposed to the fur or spruce tree. It's that's white on white on dark green.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

Yeah. Oh man yeah there yeah there's a lot there. Also I would just kind of point out for the three who tends to be fast growing and really look at matrix to the fast growth and they want to always be achieving more more. But if you can learn from the aspen tree there is a faster growing season is shorter so you'll need more fast in between your growth spurts. So that's true. Yeah very good so just a little note for me definitely go dormant earlier and come out later. Yeah and maybe find you a good nine in your life that can teach you the the red upmontresting yeah exactly okay anyogram four.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

This is the unique quality it's my favorite it's your favorite uh we said ginkgo tree and ginkgo is the oldest known tree original China but it has just has there's a uniqueness to the both the bark the fruit has some inicial purposes really stinky when it starts to rot it's what probably one of the bigger things that people notice. And I'm not saying anything about that but it's just one thing that I've observed over the years it's a very stinky fruit once it starts to once it starts to rot. The fruit itself once has a has a lot of great positive purposes when it's in when it's ripe but when it starts to rot it's so you gotta otherwise fruit quickly okay. And then the leaf shape and leaf textures like something like no other leaf in the Midwest has a really fine ridge to it's really thick and it's real showy. It looks like bow tie if you haven't seen that go that's sort of brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

I have likened it to a hard shape almost too because there's that split down the middle and to rounded edges it has caught my eye over the years and been one of my favorites because it's uniqueness and I've always thought it was delicate but you would term it a little bit hardier the leaf itself.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Yeah there's a thickness to it so it has the ability to kind of maybe withstand anytime a leaf has a waxiness or a thickness to it and it's kind of that the leaf is designed to weather a little more harsher conditions.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

And so maybe there's something there but that's just the way the texture of the leaf is another cool attribute too is when it does go and change colors which it's really brilliant really showy all the leaves drop off within 24 hours. Within a day or two it they just all fall off. With other trees they'll slowly fall off over time but within go like you'll see it in the morning and it's a brilliant yellow and then in the evening you might see it all just piled on the ground and the trees almost it's just there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:58

Interesting also what's the typical well I asked this question because when I've seen ginkgos ironically we have a shopping center near us that had the ginkgos in the parking lot they were just standalones. And it's harder to find ginkos so do they tend to grow together? Do they do better together? Or are they kind of a standalone almost that they're a little bit less of a oh cooperative tree or relying on other species.

SPEAKER_01 35:27

That's a good question. I'm not sure exactly I think we'd when we see them around here in the landscape they've just been planted but I'm not exactly sure the origins I might see them in groves naturally.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

But yeah they seem to stand alone at least here.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

Yeah they do it just an interesting thing and fours are probably surprisingly independent at times. They really care about belonging and finding their unique place within their community or friend group or whatever. And yet there there is this element where they always want to be invited but they enjoy doing their own thing and they're not really into the collaborative work of say a seven extreme who wants to do everything with everybody the four is like ah you know let me hide a little bit let me pull away from the group and then also in that then there's a standing out as well.

SPEAKER_01 36:19

Yeah the tree the ginkgo is definitely trying to stand out for sure. Yeah a lot of times you'll when you do stand planted they're they're by themselves because they kind of they call they steal the show in a lot of ways. Okay. They have so much uniqueness to them a lot of times you'll see certain trees planted group beans.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

Yeah because they look really good together from a visual standpoint.

SPEAKER_01 36:41

But typically there's enough uniqueness about them that they're that they're just kind of yeah they've got their own stuff.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

Yeah yeah that's fun. Oh I hope you are enjoying geeking out with me as much as I am so good. Okay now this was well a lot of these trees are a favor in my own right the ginkgo I'll just just share for a while when I was thinking through logos for simply wholehearted I really was fighting for the ginkgo leaf I got some pushback on that never ended up coming up with a unofficial logo but for the type five again we took a little bit longer to decide where we wanted to go with this but after Spencer said oh I think this is it for the type five I it couldn't it just made so much sense.

SPEAKER_01 37:23

Yeah it took longer to figure this one out I think the the key phrase you used was um an appetite for knowledge yeah uh or studious and that looks a lot of different in a lot of ways but I think we landed on the walnut tree and the reason is it's branching structure there's a much further gap in between most limbs another attribute is it really produces when it's putting a lot of energy towards free production it tends to break a lot. Like it's just like the wood is just weak enough that when it's really putting on a lot of fruit it tends to just get you'll get some it'll collapse under that and that's and we can talk about yeah one of the one of the aspects so of course as I was talking about the different types I would tell Spencer oh this is a person that is that type.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

So he could see it in the person and not just one word phrase but see it embodied but I was trying to relay that type fives wake up with not feeling 100% recharged and really mindfully go through their day in a way of how can I look to recharge or prepare for possible catastrophic depletion. And now that is a big combination of words but ultimately what if someone comes and wants to drain all that energy from me or the situation arises that's going to drain all my energy from me, how do I regroup? How do I make sure that doesn't happen so in that sense the walnut if faced with having to produce and give too much they could collapse under that weight. And so it's a tender while walnut is solid in itself we have a lot of furniture made out of walnut it wasn't the beautiful furniture that Spencer's dad makes it solid it's really heavy but it's interesting to know that in the process it could have not made it because of how much fruit it was producing or maybe required of yeah and if you do a lot of like highly valued qualities to the wool it's very sought after in a lot of high quality high end furniture is made of walnut.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

So it's almost as if there was a lot of intention put into the wood the heart of it.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

When I think of walnut I also when I like walnuts but when I think of walnut I think of a library and leather and kind of a maybe some cherry pipe smoke along with it where I don't know kind of that that solidness and that homeiness too. So I don't know I was just really excited there were so many elements about the walnut when we were breaking it down if you will going oh yeah this relates to the five and that relates to the five and so many positive things. Okay we've got two more so why don't you tell us a little bit about what you chose for Enneagram six.

SPEAKER_01 40:11

So give me the word loyalist and I recently took a trip to Moab and and there were where we were at there were no trees but there was one tree to kind of grow in that really difficult environment that's the juniper there's kind of a resilience to it. There's a almost a calculated effort to try to grow in like really hard conditions and that's fruit is really potent when it's grown in that neck type of condition.

SPEAKER_00 40:39

When I think of juniper is it a red like red small berries what uh they're more of like a kind of a teal colored oh yeah yeah okay yeah or yeah almost blue sometimes they with like wild main blueberries yeah gin is made out of uh there's a symphony to relate to somebody that no but yeah it's one of the aspects that I explained with the loyalists is that they are the person who has calculated the safest and we have a brother in law a shared brother-in-law who is a six and he's he is well prepared in fact he was ready to handle the last two and a half years and he's ready for whatever comes after as well we can rely on him to have information and have the facts but also have the plan and the route and then there's this element and I think this is what as it relates because Moab and the places surrounding that you went it's desert and it can seem desolate of course the outcroppings and the rock formations and all that those are stunning in their own but not a lot can grow. And it takes tenacity and that's where for I would say rooted sixes those who are rooting their life in Christ they are the most courageous because they have deep fear and anxiety about most things in life but they have persevered they have pushed through they have come out another side and faced those great fears and in that there's hardiness to it there's they're they're thriving in the midst of what feels impossible. And so to me that Juniper again was an excellent depiction and description of what sixes have gone through but as they're rooted in Christ they can thrive in even sometimes the harshest environment okay last but not least any grain seven so we chose the red bud and if you're if you live anywhere in the probably United States there are red buds everywhere. You'll see them all the yards there's multiple varieties but and they're really known for their flowering aspect or flowering season in the spring and there's a variety of colors as well right yes yep yeah so they they just they're very showy in the spring they have incredible spring color and some of the characteristics they're that they kind of have a limitedness to their prime but when they're but when they are in their prime they just they just do phenomenal.

SPEAKER_01 43:17

Yeah so tell me about the limitedness they have a I don't want to say a shorter lifespan but they have like their adolescent to like teenage a young adult year of lives of a tree they're just they thrive they grow really well they sh their color is incredibly brilliant and then as they get older they just kind of a little more spindly looking.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

Yeah they do have some lumps on their branches I know that they've got a lump yeah yeah age age thoughts so yeah there's there is a lot of elements I do the ginkgos maybe might if I'm gonna choose a favorite because it's uniqueness and then just the distinctness of it but the red bud is so beautiful around our neighborhood a lot of those red buds are a lavender almost and I don't know there's a not a fluorescence but it's just so it's just captivating and to me where it really stands out and it gets me excited oh it's spring and just excitement about the color and all that all those elements. So there's also the there was one that you talked about that we don't necessarily have in our neighborhood but multicolored either.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

Yeah. There's a variety that puts on a leaf that has different colors successionally out from the trunk out to the tips of the newer growth which is on the end is a different color than what's on the inside and so it it kind of has this multicolored looking appearance to it. And that kind of that adds on to the quality of the flower in the spring. It has this flushy growth and it has these different layers of color it's really pretty.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

So yeah I'd like to even say while it's one of the first to present its colors for the spring it also it leads way to others and kind of helps others shine on as well going hey look at everybody come over one of the things we didn't mention is that a lot of these in our figuring out how they related or how they demonstrated gave a uh an example for each personality type was the growth speed of them. And so really the ones that we talked about that for the four, five and nine have maybe a slower growth pattern, but there's some longevity there. The three, seven and eight faster growing again Again, we related some of the even the shorter growing season or the potential for breaking, or maybe as it got older, it slowed down, or maybe wasn't as brilliant, the pluses and minuses of that. And then the one, two, and six where there was a studiness in the growth pattern and a little bit more reliable and predictable. So just kind of a fun way for those of you who understand the communication styles and the stances and how that relates to we we really tried to think of the different aspects. So there's so much here. Again, I don't know, maybe someday after we get all the kids launched, you and I do a podcast series about all things trees. But in the meantime, is there anything else that you didn't mention that you would really like to make sure we call attention to as we finish out this conversation?

SPEAKER_01 46:24

Just mentioned a second ago about picking a favorite tree, which would be the ginkgo. There are every tree has its own quality, and I get asked that question a lot. Hey, what's your favorite tree? It's almost impossible because every tree has some unique characteristic to it that is unlike the others.

SPEAKER_00 46:42

Something to appreciate.

SPEAKER_01 46:43

Something to appreciate in everybody. I mean everybody's got a different um Enneagram type and had different characteristics about them that make them different from somebody else. And so it's just like trying, yeah, no two are like so trying to choose a favorite of something is possible because my favorite the ginkgo is not gonna have a very unique characteristic that something else would. So it's very difficult to do that.

SPEAKER_00 47:07

What does it mean to you? Each one of them meaning at different or feeling a different thing.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

And they all have different purposes.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

Yeah. Some where it's you're not gonna sit under there for the shade, but you're gonna really admire its beauty. Another ones that are more distinct in the spring, and others more in the fall, and all the different and some you can there's multiple uses. Walnut might be a part of our lives in a bigger way.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

As an oak tree might, as opposed to say an aspen. But I will say, you had made some aspen candles a while back. I still need more of those. They're my favorite.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

Ugh. This was so good. I don't even know how long a conversation it was. I think I promised, oh, 30 minutes or so, I'm pretty sure you remember it. But I yeah, this was so good. There's many more elements and I hope more conversations to come, but I really pray that this has sparked some deeper thought for my friends.

SPEAKER_01 48:00

Yeah, this was fun.

SPEAKER_00 48:02

Thank you. Now, what did you think? If someone were to ask you about your main takeaway from the episode, what would you say? I think there's power in sitting with the episode for a bit, just before you cue up the next one. When we take some time to think about the information that we were just exposed to, it helps us be able to implement that information to our lives, and therefore, we perhaps could be transformed by the information we've been given. Now there are a few Bible verses that came to mind that I wanted to share with you, especially ones that have stood out to me over the years because I'm married to an arborist, and there's a lot of verses about trees and how it relates to spiritual growth. One of my favorite ones is Psalm 1 and it's verses 1 through 3. And it says, Oh, the joy of those who do not follow the advice of the wicked, or stand around with sinners, or join in with the mockers, but they delight in the law of the Lord, meditating on it day and night. They are like trees planted along the riverbank, bearing fruit each season, their leaves never wither, and they prosper in all they do. Now, this Psalm 1 is something that my kids have memorized. And if you have ever read the Psalms, I'm assuming that you have read this maybe once or twice. There's something so just captivating by this thought that we could be like trees planted along a riverbank, that we bear fruit each season. The fact that the leaves would never wither and just continual prosperity, that's that's kind of a something that wouldn't happen in a natural pattern, right? Trees go through seasons. And just like we're heading into this fall season, or really we've we're about a week into it, right? Where the leaves are starting to die, they're starting to wither. And it doesn't really reflect whether they've been watered or by a water source. That's just the the ebb and flow of how life works here on this side of heaven. But I just I think about us and the the spiritual connection that if we are staying next to the riverbank, and that riverbank meaning the streams of living water, and the streams of living water is reference to Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. That we can, if we stay firmly planted, that if we stay rooted in Him, then we can be as a tree, always bearing fruit and our leaves never withering. That's not that you wouldn't get tired or that you wouldn't need to take breaks and you wouldn't experience falls and winters in life. That's a whole nother conversation and a conversation I have with many of my clients. But I think there's just something so intriguing as we think about being deeply rooted and planted by living streams. Another verse that I've been meditating on a lot this year comes from Jeremiah 17. And there's several verses leading up to it that I think are worth reading, but for now I'll skip to this. But blessed are those who trust in the Lord and have made the Lord their hope and confidence. They're like trees planted along a riverbank, with roots that reach deep into the water. Such trees are not bothered by the heat or worried by the long months of drought. Their leaves stay green and they never stop producing fruit. It's really similar to that Psalms verse, right? And I think that's why I wanted to highlight it today. If you do a little search even on your Bible app, you'll pull up tons of references to trees and a lot of different Bible translations. And I think it, you know, it would be really fun to maybe put together a study or something to that effect. But if you can see the consistency here of what the Word of God is showing us, is that it's about our roots. And I've thought of it as there's maybe been a drought in my life, if you will, for the last year and a half. I know I keep referring to it and referencing it, but it's been a tough season. It's there's been a lot of heat, right? And maybe even long months of drought. But I can say that I believe that as I have rooted myself in Christ and as I've leaned on him through this really challenging time, I have a sense that while maybe there's not a lot of evidence of like, oh wow, you know, like Amy's doing all these things and having this great success or experiencing amazing landfall. And in fact, there's a lot of shaking loose and what feels like a drought, and there's things that are more leaving than there are growing. I have a sense that during this time, the roots of my life, the roots of my faith are growing in deep as I'm reaching, reaching towards that living water, as I'm reaching towards Christ in this time. And I am going to bank on the truth that in time I will get to see the fruit from allowing my roots to go deep, deep into the water. So there are some of my, well, maybe unsolicited thoughts, but I hope some thoughts for you today as you just think about the beauty of creation and how it proclaims Jesus' name and the goodness of God and his glory and just the amazing creator that we have. And I hope that you can laugh a little bit with some of these. Maybe there is a tree that you're like, oh, I'm so glad that that was the tree that they attributed to that Enneagram type. And just for fun, don't go around typing anybody with uh with this new tree information. Hold it loosely, but I hope you enjoyed this behind the scenes. So as we head into this fall season and the last quarter of 2022, I can't believe that, can you? I am taking a one-week pause here before the last season of the year, which traditionally, if you've been around here for a while, I love to do all things holiday and begin the fall season ushering us into rhythms of rest so we can enjoy celebration, we can enjoy just the respite that the holidays can provide and maybe ease into the holiday season without some of the stress that we've experienced in the years past. So I'm gonna take a break and work on some really special episodes that are coming your way. I'm gonna be having guests like Marilyn Van Sill, even. I'm gonna do some behind-the-scenes episodes, and I have this wonderful couple client who have gone through the Becoming Us coaching process. You're gonna get to hear some of their story. They're they are just the sweetest things. And then we're gonna be diving into the holiday season, preparing for Thanksgiving and Christmas. I can't wait to share all of the goodness with you. So while I take my week off, I would love for you to go back and listen to any past episodes that you have missed. Also, maybe catch up on some of the sessions from this year's summit. You can still get an all access pass to this year's summit and even an upgrade to last year's summit if you missed those two. Those are wonderful resources to investigate into some self-leadership and understanding of the Enneagram and how you can lead yourself in the growth process as you want to understand the Enneagram a little bit better. So check out the past episodes, check out the summit, and as always, you can reach out to me and let me know your show suggestions, or maybe you have a guess that you think would be perfect for the holiday season. I might be able to squeeze in one or two more. So, until next time, friends, continue to pursue God's perspective, purpose, and plans for your simply wholehearted life.