Keeping the Peace | Beth McCord Enneagram Type 9

Unity and harmony are possible in all our relationships.

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The Enneagram can name your patterns. It can't set you free from them. That's the difference between insight and transformation, and it's the whole focus of this summit.

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https://www.simplywholehearted.com/wholehearted-2026

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SPEAKER_02 1:41

Hi friends, welcome back to the Simply Wholehearted podcast. It means so much to have you choose to take this conversation along with you today. I'm Amy Wicks, your host, and here at Simply Wholehearted, we provide perspective, purpose, and plans to help you love God, love others, and live your best life. We are traveling through our summer in the Enneagram, and we are stopping to visit and learn a little bit more about the Type 9s. And while they can see well from your perspective, they also have their own unique talents and presence to offer others. By now, you know how much I value the insights of the Enneagram, and I believe that this resource will guide you to create your best plan for a whole-hearted life. Now, before we jump into this conversation with our good friend of the podcast, Beth McCord, also known as your Aneogram coach, here are some fun facts about a Type 9. They are diplomatic, empathetic, and receptive. They are motivated by the desire to keep peace and avoid conflict. And they might need you to ask them really good questions in order to get to know them better. Type 9s like the 8 and 1 are in the gut triad. But they are like the type 4 and 5 in that they are in the inward or withdrawn stance, and they are also pass-oriented. Here are some great tips to help you get along with the 9. Now please be aware that how you ask for help or a favor is important. Expectations and pressure are no fun for a 9. Respect their need to take time to express their thoughts and feelings and opinions. And understand that they like a good discussion, but not a confrontation. If you're a longtime listener to the podcast, you'll remember back in early 2017 we had Beth McCord on the podcast to help me share the inside of the Aneagram with all of you. To this day, it's still the most downloaded episode on a regular basis, and it's obvious the Aneagram is having its moment. And I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon. I really enjoyed talking with Beth, though she now has a major following, book deals, as in like 10 of them, and almost 50 online courses. She is as kind and down to earth as you can imagine. Truly, I have so much to thank her for and her encouragement, training, and support. And I think you'll agree that this was a fantastic way to wrap up our summer in the Enneagram travels. It was awesome to get to know about the Enneagram Nines and tips on how to love and be a great friend to any Enneagram type. And by the way, I hope that you're all a part of the online Simply Wholehearted community. I'm loving all the Enneagram conversations happening there each week. All the traveling, all the people, that has to be tricky. So how are you balancing that just with who you are and the demands?

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Yeah, there's I mean, it keeps me going. So it keeps me from slipping into too much like negative inertia, like you know, just stopping.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

So it's keeping me like, you know, what stays in motion, you know, what what's emotion stays in motion. So it kind of keeps me going, but I also have to balance like too like if it's too much. Like um, for instance, my husband being a six, when we are at these events, he would love to talk to like everybody and connect with everybody.

SPEAKER_01 5:06

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

And I'm like, no, like as much as I I mean, I really I would like to, but I know I get overwhelmed. Totally just too much. Yeah. So I'm more of the the person that will stay like in the green room, you know, allow everyone else to do their role instead of me out there mingling and stuff, just to keep me focused on what we need to do. So I've just had to learn like there are some things that I can um do to kind of minimize overwhelm and then shut down.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

Also, like instead of going out with the team the next day to like a brunch or something, I might stay back and sleep in or regroup or right. Now that's not necessarily what my because like I don't want to miss out. Like and I want to have fun. Right. I also know there's only so much I can push until the whole system shuts down. So I have to just be more mindful of when and how I exert all of my energy. So yeah. But it's always a learning process. I mean, there's no one set thing that works or doesn't work, it's just kind of always monitoring what it feels like in any given moment.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

So yeah, you've never done this before. So you're you're on a learning curve just like everyone else's in life, no matter if they've known their type for a long time or not.

unknown 6:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

No, we're all in a really good experience.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

That's amazing. What actually caused you to take it from we do this in our church and our community in life to and really you guys have just been like creating things to meet the demand almost?

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Yeah, so I worked for Michael Hyatt. Um he kind of does business guru type stuff, online everything. Yeah, so I kind of saw like, you know, we could create an online course and he kind of shows you how to develop your own platform. So I just kind of followed a lot of his you know methods and ideas and suggestions, or like the people that he was promoting, their ideas and suggestions, and yeah. Um so with Jeff and I kind of seeing that behind the scenes, we felt inspired. But also, Jeff didn't have a job when I launched it.

SPEAKER_02 7:17

Oh, okay, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. So that without that, it would have been much slower and like uh, you know, but yeah, because I think for a nine, you gotta put the fire on under them.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

They've gotta have a reason. So I was kind of curious about the motivation.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

So we were living off, you know, my parents' help at the time, and it was like in my in my part-time job, and uh you know, only go for so long. And totally for whatever reason, God just was not well. I mean, we know the reason now, he was not giving Jeff a job, which that's never happened. Like he can get a job anywhere or do anything. And I think it was just guys saying, No, uh, this is your turn to like step it up. And I was like, Oh, okay, I gotta get in there. I gotta make something happen. So so yeah, we just did bit by bit, and um, so we launched the business about eight months before the road back to you came out. Okay, but of course, you know, so I was growing my coaching business, and then when that book came out, I also a couple weeks later launched my first BEC course. Okay, and that was seed money to then create you know a website and an you know more online courses. So it just kind of progressed in a sense naturally, yeah while at the same time trying to be strategic. But no one was really really into the Enneagram until the FTU came out, and that is kind of what helped get people more engaged and everything. So we were just kind of at the right place at the right time, and then just toned in our message for a very specific crowd that was looking for what we were offering, and you know, that helps.

SPEAKER_02 9:06

Yeah, and I was one of them, and I loved it, where you you gave a clear, a clear tie-in of the gospel and how the Enneagram can help us understand it and look at it in a unique way. And so, I mean, it's been a much needed voice out there, and I'm really grateful for it. It's definitely changed my life. I mean, I hadn't started to learn about the Enneagram, but I I feel like with your influence and the teaching and obviously taking your coaching course, and and you've also been so kind several times when I've written an email. You've personally responded, you know, we justified a personal response, and that's been such a blessing to me. And I know the people that I'm coming across and getting to coach or who come across, you know, whatever I'm putting on the socials. It's just really neat to see the impact, like you talked about, the lives change or the light bull moments happening. One of the fun things that I have come across in conversation is learning about the different ways each type thinks it as they kind of hit the floor in the morning, like their feet touch the ground, or they, you know, wake up and some of the first thoughts that come into their mind, it's different for everyone, right? So I'm kind of curious to hear your perspective as a nine, especially in a season like this that's so busy and there's so much being asked of you. What's what's kind of going through your mind when you wake up?

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Yeah, so to be very honest, when I wake up, there's usually two things that are happening. One of two things, not two things, as in like the same time. Yes. Either if I'm excited about something I'm working on, like passionate and like I wake up and I'm ready to go. I'm like ready to like just get up, and to the point where it's like it's almost annoying have to having to like get ready for the day. Like I just wanna just want to get to it. Yeah, I just want to go get my coffee and get to it. But if there's nothing that I'm like passionate about, but I'm enjoying doing my first thought is usually like, oh well, maybe I'll just sit here for a little bit longer, you know. Like maybe I'll just a little bit more time. Relax, like I don't, I'm not as in a rush, and all of a sudden time kind of just takes over, and I'm like, wow, it took me a long time to get ready. And so it and then I get kind of annoyed with myself because of how long it took, and now I'm like that that much further into my day. So I almost prefer having something that I'm excited to get done because it gets me going and I am much more productive and um have more time later on to do fun things. So those are usually the two things. It's either fast and furious and excited, or it's like doo-doo doo-doo, which is such a nice, right? Right. It's either we talked about inertia, it's either you know, something at rest stays at rest, and something at motion stays at motion. So um, so I try to have you know things that are fun and positive. Yeah, that's good, you know, at the forefront. But you know, that's not always the case, and that's just like yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

Well, it's interesting because you name something there, the feeling that I struggle with when I'm stressed. And as a three, I know that sometimes the telltale signs of my stress and overwhelm looks a little bit like a nine. Yeah. So for you, like how I can recognize my stress signals and I go, uh oh, something's off in Amy's world. We need to identify what that is. Let's get back on the path to growth and health. For you, what are some of those telltale signs that you're like, all right, Beth, we need to take care of yourself. Something's not quite right. Let's go, yeah, let's go do something about it. What does that look like?

SPEAKER_00 12:45

Yeah, so for me, it is definitely my mind starts racing, and I'm thinking, so I move to six and my mind's racing. I'm and as a nine's mind, we don't really like to go fast. So all of a sudden it's racing and it feels overwhelm, and I'll get maybe irritable or insistent that people come through in a certain way to hopefully bring uh reprieve to this internal tension inside. And so I can get more direct or snippy or just feeling just like this overall like ah feeling. And so, like with my family, they just know like I might get more short and irritable and snippy and frustrated. Um, but they also will hear me rattling off a bunch of things, like, well, what about this? Or could we you could this happen? So your your mental list starts spilling out. Yeah, and they can, I mean, it's pretty clear when I'm under stress because otherwise I'm much more quiet and laid back and like, oh, things are gonna be great, and all it's gonna be fine, it's all gonna work out. That's probably my norm. And so it's a very different atmosphere when I'm stressed. Yeah. And so it's pretty obvious to them when it's happening. Um, and I'm much more aware of it. Um, but it can sneak up quickly, and I may not own it as fast as I should, but I'm trying to get better, like you know, as we've talked about using it as a rumble strip. Like, oh yes, I'm struggling right now. Like I need to take a break or I need to ask someone for help. Um and it's not so much that nines don't want people to help them. Okay. Um they just don't want to put people out.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

So we don't really want to ask for help because we don't want to like, well, what if they don't want to help? But I've asked them to help so they feel obligated to help. Okay. Um when someone may have loved to have helped. Absolutely. I just I just do a better job at um seeing that I need help and then asking for help and trusting that they will either say yes or no rightfully. Like, you know, if they can't or can't. And if they don't, that's on them. Right. It's not, you know, on me. But that's hard for a nine, is to is to ask for help and one wonder do they really want to be helping me right now? Like upsetting them, am I putting them out?

SPEAKER_02 15:09

You know, do you distrust the answer or do you believe it when people tell you that they're willing to help you and respond to your requests?

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Um, I think as a nine without being aware of another person, or just like let's say I'm not very aware, I would assume I don't know because a nine will say yes even if they mean no.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Sure. And so a nine will go along to accommodate. So of course then I will project that onto someone else.

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:36

And so therefore, I might think, well, do they really want to help? Because you know, a nine might like I'm not thinking this as like, but I would maybe say yes, even if I don't really want to, because I want to be kind. So yeah, so there is that mistrust, but it's because of how I see the world, not not on what is actually.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. Because I think like a two might expect someone to read their mind and their need because they're so easily able to do that, and they kind of do that projection. So like a nine would do not that they expect to read their mind, but they expect them to give an answer that's maybe not truthful, because they've been guilty of the same. Exactly. That makes a ton of sense, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

And so if I know the person and I know their type, it helps me to then not do that, to not sure assume correctly, or to ask clarifying questions. So it's really helped me to have that kind of language. So if it is, let's say, a type 8 and I ask for help and they can and are willing, I know they're not going to if they don't want to or they can't. Right. It's like they're gonna be just honest with it. Yeah. So it gives me a lot more freedom to be able to ask things with certain types. Whereas like let's say with a nine, on all on one side, nines, even if they don't want to, they're also happy to accommodate. They really like the connecting and being there for people. So it's not like it's a pure no.

SPEAKER_02 17:03

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

It's maybe they just didn't want to like be bothered. But they're happy to make someone.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Yeah, but not necessarily growing resentful as much as a one might.

SPEAKER_00 17:12

Yeah, so it's a little bit different, but yeah, it is a little bit harder to pinpoint, like, do you really want to, you know, but again, I I have to learn like that's not on me to make like they have to do their own work and saying what they need to say. Um, but yeah, it can be kind of tricky and challenging for sure.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

It totally is. Well, I would I'm kind of curious to know because I'm not sure if I do remember this story, but for you, when you first came across the Aneagram and you were reading about it, and and I don't even know what was your first resource, but yeah, what was for you the moment that you thought, oh, this, the Anneagram type nine, really that is that is saying things for me I didn't even know was in there.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

So this was back in around 2001, okay, when Jev and I have been married for about six years, had uh one to two year old and a three or four-year-old, somewhere in that range. And uh hard years, the early childhood years, yes. We just felt stuck in our communication and conflict style and didn't understand each other, let alone ourselves, of course, didn't understand our kids, you know. Yes, I bet age. Totally can't explain why so lost and confused, and I was just like, I just would love an instruction manual. But we had some friends who were seeing a counselor who gave them Richard Rohr's book, A Christian Perspective on the Enneagram. Oh, okay. They gave us, but because Jeff was in seminary, he kind of glanced through it, but didn't really do like a deep dive. He didn't have the brain space. Right. Yeah, and so I took a deeper dive into it. Now, that book isn't an easy read. No, it's not at all. It's a heavy one. But when I did come across type nine, I was like, oh wow, like that is so me. Now, the challenge of the nine is we can see ourselves in all nine types. So that's what I'm gonna do. Yes. So there were times I was like, Well, I don't know, maybe on this number because when I'd read in different numbers, like, I don't know, maybe I'm that number. But every time I came back to reading nine, it felt even more true than the other lives. Yeah, and I didn't have anyone back then that I could even ask questions to support. Yeah, everything was self-taught, and so I started getting some other books and resources. Now, none of them were from a Christian perspective, or at least the theological perspective that we were holding. And so as I was reading, I just had to filter it out a lot.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

And then I would use Jeff as my like backboard, you know, like to like bounce. A theological sounding board, yeah. So because he was going through seminaries. So I was like, okay, so they're talking about this in this way. How would we view it from our theological viewpoint? And then he would go, Oh, okay. And then so then he would kind of do his little spiel, and that's just kind of how we've done it for the last whatever umpteenth years. Yes. Um, with the Enneagram. And so that it just kind of built on itself. And then once he finally started getting so he first typed himself as an eight. Oh, okay. I thought he was a six, but he but my mom's a six, and they look nothing alike. Uh-huh. Oh, yeah. That's the tricky thing about the sixes. Exactly. What what he and I didn't realize is there's such a wide spectrum of sixes.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:41

And so he saw himself more as an eight because, as you know, but our list your listeners may not know, there's a counterphobic six, which is it doesn't quite look like the typical six that's written about, and they look more eight-like, but internally they're still a six.

SPEAKER_01 20:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:58

So, anyway, so for a while he thought he was an eight, and then uh counselor we were scene, who knew the enneagram, was like, You're not an eight. That kind of disturbed him enough where he put the ennegram aside for like a year, and then when he was able to swallow his true type, interesting, then we both started really using it and growing, and then started to use it with couples in the church, um, saw them grow, and it just started cascading from there. But when we moved to Nashville, I was like literally quiet about what I knew for a couple it was a good old nine for a couple years because no one was talking about it, right? In the Christian sphere, they were just like, What is this thing? So with Jeff having a new job and everything, I just kind of kept it quiet and I just kept learning on my own. And then we started using it again with marriages and friends and saw them grow. And then it wasn't until Jeff um didn't have a job for a while, and we were working for Michael Hyatt that we saw, oh, we can maybe make some courses or do some coaching, or you know, I don't know, we'll see what happens. And that's when it turned into what it is today.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

That's amazing. I love hearing that story, especially the journey. I mean, you guys have been on a long one, but just how it naturally, you know, incorporated into your world, your life, your thought process, and even the process of you theologically, you know, vetting it against like, okay, what really how does this fit in? What does this look like? This is my worldview lens, this is what I believe is truth and guides the conversation. So where does it fit in? And it's amazing once you do see it through that lens, going, Oh, yeah, this makes so much sense. You know, it's a yes, it's not the end-all, it is not the truth, but it is an awesome resource that can help us.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Yeah, I mean, we can we could at any any moment, any day, put it aside, yeah, and we're perfectly fine with the truth of the gospel, because at the end of the day, the only thing that brings transformation is the gospel. This just is like a flashlight that highlights or illuminates your heart's condition. It's just saying, Hey, you're you're you know, you're doing okay, or you're veering off course, and but you don't go to the Enneagram to fix yourself, you go to the gospel. Yes, and that's what gets you back on your best path. But obviously, the Enneagram gives us great heads up and insights so that we can continue in our walk with Christ to be more like him. Yeah, and that's what we use it for.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

Amen. Same well, and one of the great resources and the the tools that I have loved having was for my marriage. I mean, talk about a game. Changer, I suddenly our arguments take on a whole new light. And we still argue. But now it's a little less heated, and I know when I walk away from it, I know how to process a little bit better, not only understand my motivation and whatever it is that's bothering me, but I can also objectively look at his the best I can without being in his brain. So you guys, probably the demand again and again, and the question you heard often is what type goes with what type best? And how do we get along with this person? And I mean, I even my relationships and friendships, it just gives a whole new insight of why maybe there's some sticking points or struggles or why I connect really well with some people as opposed to others. And I know ultimately the answer is all nine types can be with all nine types. There's no one that can't be with the other. It's about levels of health and growth. But I think you guys have really gathered a ton of wisdom and just create insight for the rest of us to learn from. And I would love to be able to highlight some of that today. But I'm kind of curious to know what was kind of that moment where you're like encouraged you to create all of these resources for marriage.

SPEAKER_00 24:53

It was about a little over a year ago that we just realized where we were heading and needed a book. Without a book in our in in the Christian sphere or like developing a platform, it just doesn't you just don't have the same kind of authority.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

And so when we looked at like the Indiegral Quirl, there were a lot of primers from different perspectives, but there's a lot of primers out there. Right. Um, but there wasn't a book on marriage. Um, there was at least not in our niche, I should say. Yeah and not in the way that we knew we wanted to present it. So there was a book on relationships, but it's interesting because people really want it in their language. So here we wrote a book on marriage, and people that are married are so thankful and love it. But if they're not married, because it's not written in just relationships, then they want resources that's for other relationships. And we let them know, like, no, it's the same, it's the same material, it's the same insights. You just gotta remove the word marriage out or spouse. Um, and it can be used with any relationship. Um, so but we just saw that there was this big gaping hole for marriages, and because it impacted our marriage so much, and we saw it time and time again in other people's marriages that we've been working with, that that was a sweet spot for us that we were really comfortable in. And so we felt like that could be, you know, a real strong suit for us to tackle that arena first. Totally. Um, and especially because there wasn't anything in the marketplace for it. So we just thought, yeah, I think this is where we need to land. It didn't mean that we didn't want to focus on everyone else as well, because your Enneagram coach is like a big umbrella, right? And so yeah, we it's for everybody building out it's for everybody, and then now we're just building out one portion, but in the future we're hoping to do maybe like workplace or parenting or so awesome. Lots of other different spheres, but it just happened that we went with the place that we're strongest in, which is marriage relationships.

SPEAKER_02 26:56

Makes so much sense. That is really good. So not only are you doing a book and you did some conferences or not conferences, I guess it was one-day conferences, right? Or one evening conferences. Um date nights. Yeah, date nights, that's it. But then you also uh you have courses that are coming out.

SPEAKER_01 27:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:13

Tell us a little bit about that because I am really excited because as one person and an Enneagram coach, I can only help so many people at a time. And I'm limited by my schedule, beautifully limited. But I know a long time ago when I heard about this coming, I'm like, oh Beth, tell me more. I want to tell all my people about this. So give us a lowdown on it.

SPEAKER_00 27:34

Yes. So we do have online courses, as you know. So the first course is Discovering You, which is a two-hour primer. And so think and it's so helpful.

SPEAKER_02 27:42

I recommend everyone to take it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:44

So think Shakespeare, like, oh, that's complicated. Well, the interview is complicated. So we do it in the Cliff Notes version. So like you're getting all the important content, but in a way that you can digest. Yes. Um, Discovering You is a great two-hour primer, and then exploring you takes it deeper for your specific type. Five coaching sessions where I guide you through your personality type from a gospel center perspective. But for those that are married and they're interested in diving deeper into how the two of them work together, we call that the dance. So how do we dance together? Yes. Um, it's called Becoming Us, and it's a marriage course. So we all also have the book, right? But this is the online marriage course, and we created 45 of them because there are 45 different couple combinations.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

That's so fun! That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 28:36

Yeah, we took a lot of time. So each course has eight modules.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Um, and so if you're a type two and a three or a five and a nine, or whatever combination, or nine and a nine, a one and a one, well, it doesn't really matter, whatever combination, we have a course built out for that couple type in a 64-page workbook that's beautifully designed. But what we're gonna show is one, how does the endeagram work? It's more specifically, how does your two personality types operate? So we get specific, and then how do the two of you operate together, which we call the dance? Yeah, and we clearly show how you guys dance when you're not doing well, which we call being misaligned with the truth of the gospel. And then what is it like when you're aligned with the truth of the gospel, where you're healthy and you're growing? Like we literally show you the two different paths in your communication style, conflict style, family of origin, like how you bring your personality so good, right? And then what does it look like to become your best selves together? So we break all of that down into the different modules and a workbook, so everything is laid out very clearly because that's what people are really wanting to know is absolutely okay, like because like our marriage book is gonna be great, but we don't show you specifically how the two of you operate. Now we give oversight on each of the types and what they do. Okay, but you have to then kind of piece the two puzzle pieces together on your own.

SPEAKER_02 30:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Whereas this course, I'm literally doing it for you and I'm spelling it out. It's kind of like Beth McCord has a camera in your house and literally is telling you what's happening. That's awesome. It gets that creepy. That's it's good because it's like, oh, she gets it, you know, like and not only she gets the hard parts, she sees the good parts, and she's gonna show you how to get there. You know, we're not just marriage counseling in your home. Exactly. That's great. So um, yeah, so each of the couple types, they just need to know their type, right? Um, we do offer one free exchange if someone were to be like, oops, I think I mistyped myself. Oh, that's a that's good.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

Because this happened.

SPEAKER_00 30:47

So there's 30-day risk guarantee, you know, so you can exchange it or you can get your money back. We just want people to try it. I think they'll be super surprised at how clear it is, how it represents them, and it gives them hope. Because yeah, we're gonna show you where you get stuck, but one time at the same time, that's like, oh phew, okay, it's not just us.

SPEAKER_02 31:08

Like other couples have the struggle.

SPEAKER_00 31:13

But then we'll show you the path of growth. So it's there's the hope, right? Yeah. Um, and that's why it is true, it is absolutely true. There's no couple type that's better than the others. The couple types that are willing to grow and own their own stuff, those are the ones that are going to be, you know, they're gonna really stand out and succeed. But if we don't own our stuff and we blame other people, we defend all those kinds of things, then we're gonna struggle. So we just have to do our own personal work and then also do it together, and then we'll see our marriages thrive no matter what types we are.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

Amen. That's so awesome. Okay, so Beth, I was hoping you could give us sort of a sneak peek into your book and your courses by giving us a really high overview of how to get along with each type. And because I think for we all know a type, and we do in our heart of hearts, I think as we're maturing, growing Christians, our desire is to love people well, how they want to be loved. And and it's it's just great to know some of those keys. So I thought it would be fun, and if we could start with the nines, even um, because you know, this is the nine show, and we want to, you know, get to highlight them first. Um, so maybe just real quick, I'll ask you about each type, and then you can give a rundown of um maybe even just one thing of how you could get along with them. Okay, so we're any grim nine.

SPEAKER_00 32:34

Yeah, so the type nines are the peaceful mediators, and they hate conflict and tension and discord of any kind. That's for sure. So a great way to get along with them is one, be optimistic and positive, encouraging, uh, affirming of them. They see themselves through other people's eyes. And so when anyone is discouraging or nitpicky, that's how they're gonna probably feel and view themselves. Whereas if you're encouraging or uplifting, even slightly to a lot, it helps them to see them in that light. And you'll actually see them thrive when you give them more encouragement, even if it's the littlest thing possible. Um, they just really thrive off of that. Um, and also showing them where they've done well, where their voice and presence and opinions matter is super beneficial for them. Um the type eight, they fear being harmed and controlled and at the mercy of injustice. So, how to help them is to be honest and blunt and straightforward and to give them the benefit of the doubt. They can be very blunt and straightforward. And a lot of people that can land on them harsh and hurt their feelings. But a lot of times eights aren't intending that to be the case. Yeah. So if you can just ask clarifying questions and give them the benefit of the doubt first, that will go a long way. And just to see that they actually are big-hearted people that tend to say it like it is, and just to recognize that is really beneficial.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Yeah, and I think in turn, it's the permission there isn't to be harsh in a straightforward manner, it's just to be honest in a straightforward manner and still kind and aware of their vulnerability.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

Exactly, absolutely. The type seven is entertain optimists, and they fear being bored or trapped or restricted, not having fun, having to deal with emotional. She is a she's a blast. Yeah, exactly. And things that they would appreciate is to not be restricted, of course, that's kind of hard because life has its own limits, yeah. But to recognize that that's a struggle for them, and so how to maybe reframe the quote unquote restriction into something more positive. So, for instance, like if people have to do chores or things, you know, budgets or whatever it is, like make it fun, you know. Like, and it's like, how do you make a budget fun? Well, like get a milkshake or make a game out of it, or a competition of like the most, or yeah, just something that's fun, you know, that doesn't make the mundane even worse. Um, and then also just allowing like seeing how they have this free spirit and spontaneity, and on one side encouraging it within the normal limits of life, you know, but that's good, but recognizing that they just really have this free spirit, um, and it's a beautiful thing.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

Yeah, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

The types of sexes they can be complicated. The loyal guardians, and they're they all struggle with um fear itself, being without support, guidance, and security. They also fear being abandoned, um, targeted, alone. And so recognizing that there's some sexes that succumb to their fears and anxieties all the way to the other side where they look very strong and they're gonna push against those fears.

SPEAKER_02 36:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 36:07

But no matter what, they all ha struggle with an internal committee that is chiming in from all perspectives, showing them what could possibly happen. And it brings up a lot of fear and anxiety. Again, some of them succumb to it and backpedal away from it, and others are like headstrong into it. So they're that it could just vary, but where you could really show them love and support is one, not judging them for their anxiety. If you had a committee in your mind that was showing you all the different possibilities, right, it's hard, it's really hard. Um, and recognizing that sixes are the most courageous on the Enneag, meaning every day they have all the possibilities of what could go wrong and the anxieties that go with it. Yeah, they move forward, you know, they move forward in life. And so just recognizing the hard work, the encouragement, or in and encourage them of how dutiful and faithful and loyal they are. Yeah, uh is really, really important.

SPEAKER_02 37:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Oh, that's a good one. Okay, the type fives. Type fives, the investigative fingers. Um, they fear being um obligated, intruded on, annihilated, incapable, incompetent, not having the an enough knowledge to that sounds so terrible.

SPEAKER_02 37:22

I think there's something about the five that their fears is just like uh obliterating.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Yeah, right, right. Yeah, well, and and it actually does feel that way. So for them, they feel like there could be catastrophic depletion that could happen. And so they want to contain as much of their inner resources as possible and not be depleted. But obviously, life is life and things will deplete us. So we want to come along and support them by one, if we need to talk to them, don't just surprise them, intrude on their space, recognize they really appreciate a heads up of any kind and as much time as possible because they really do need time to think and process and gain more insights and knowledge. So if you just spur something on them really fast and just expect them to come through right away, that's just not gonna be fair for them. You know, it doesn't mean they don't have the knowledge, they absolutely have a ton of knowledge. It's they fear they don't have enough knowledge, and so they want the time to process their thoughts and feelings. So giving them time alone uh to recharge or to process their thoughts, um, but also just saying, hey, I'm gonna come over and see you um in 30 minutes. I just want to give you a heads up that that's what's happening. Yeah, like that is very, very helpful. So that maybe they need some time to recharge and to process. That gives them that heads up. It's real um gracious to do that for the type fives.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

Yeah, that's good. I think too, the fives have been one of the most surprising numbers for me. As I get to know them more, they're just there's such a wide variety that you cannot you I kind of want to put that um personality in a box and kind of stereotype, you know, out of all of them, even more so stereotype it. But again and again, that stereotype's blown out of the water. I'm like, oh yep, I yeah, it all looks so different, and I gotta remember that for each number, there's so many various shades.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

I think the when I was younger in my knowledge of the Enneagram per se, the more I would try to type people. Sure. Older I've gotten, and the more I understand types, and the more people think I'm walking around typing people. I'm like, actually, no, it's the opposite. I don't even, I don't even try to type because there's so many variances, so much incredible nuance and depth. And like you said, it doesn't always show up the way you think it's gonna show up. And I you can't read a book by its cover, and so I'm the same way. I'm like, you know what? Until they tell me, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know your type. You gotta tell me why you do what you do. So and it makes it fun too. And and then we just don't put people on the box because we don't know why they're doing what they're doing. Yeah, yeah, so for sure. Yeah, though you guys are good at it.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

All you need to do is ask a few questions or you look for key phrases, and I know you got it. I've had a couple friends who've interacted with you all, and they're like, Yeah, I just had to sit down and have this one little conversation, and they were helping me figure out that I was not what I thought I was, and told us why, and it made so much sense, and my life's so much better.

SPEAKER_00 40:24

Yeah, as you get into it um on a deeper level, people say, Oh, okay, well, I'm kind of torn between a two and a seven, let's say. Well, yeah, there's a lot of reasons that makes total sense. But what I show them is key things of why they're so very different. Yeah. And then I let them decide, okay, based on those very different aspects, which one sounds and so that really helps them.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

It does.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

Because yeah, I mean, there's so many similarities that cross over for a lot of the types. It makes sense. Yeah. But we gotta do that deeper work in and pulling those um types apart for sure.

SPEAKER_02 40:58

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

Hey, yeah, type four. The um romantic individualists, uh, they fear being plain, mundane, ordinary, um, not being able to be themselves like their most authentic and unique self. So, how to really support them is to allow them to express themselves uniquely and to reflect that back to them. Um, they often feel very misunderstood. So it's really important to listen, to be intrigued, to be curious, but to also reflect back how you hear them, like the unique qualities, but also not to be surprised if they think you misunderstood them. That's part of the struggle because they're unique and they're different. Right. But it doesn't mean we can't do an excellent job by listening and being curious and trying our best to support them, but also saying, you know what, you're right. I don't know if I fully understand you, and I wish I I did, and I want to keep learning more because you're important to me, like your unique way of seeing the world is valuable. And so they really just appreciate the effort and the fact that we see that they're different and that that's good and that's okay. Um, so that's a good way to support um the fortnight. Also, they have a tsunami of emotions, and a lot of times people can be like, Well, just don't feel or don't feel so much. Well, if you had a tsunami of emotions coming your way, you try to stop, you know. Yeah, yeah. Um, really would mean a lot to them. So just that understanding is really good. That is good. Okay, we're three. The type of three. Um, the successful achiever. So they fear being a failure, exposed, shamed, not having worth and value, um, their image tarnished. So understanding struggle is real, people. I'm just here to tell you those things are hard. And it's so funny because when people hear a type that's not them, I mean, you know, it's like, oh, I could kind of see that in other people, but man, when it hits your own type, you're like, Yes, it's absolutely real. Yeah. Because it really, I mean, it feels a hundred percent like reality, right? Um, so to understand a three is to understand that they want their identity to be seen, like so how they've accomplished what they've done to be acknowledged and like, wow, you did such a great job. At the same time, we don't want them to think they're loved and valued just based off of their accomplishments. And that's how the the three thinks it works. Yeah, but they ultimately really want to know that they're love for just being them. They don't have to accomplish, but they don't think it's possible or real. So we get the opportunity of reflecting, I'm so proud of you for doing all those things, but I also would love and be proud of you even if you didn't accomplish it. Like it doesn't you didn't earn more from me. I just but I I do appreciate you, or I do respect you, or I do admire you. Yeah, but I just love you just for you too. And does that land on you, right?

SPEAKER_02 44:17

Oh, totally, yeah. Yeah, and even like and to reflect back as a three, I have to separate out what is a um a question of my work and not a question of my value. And those are two very different things. And if it comes from a certain person, I take it the wrong way, no matter what, and I have to, in my growth, take time to go, okay, that wasn't a question of my value that they don't think less of me. It was just a question of the content or what I produced, and and that's that, it's at base value and nothing more.

SPEAKER_00 44:52

All right, and the Enneagram 2. Yeah, Enneagram type 2, they're supportive advisors, so they fear being worthless, disposable, not needed or wanted or loved. And so to help them is to be proactive and seeing how they've been so thoughtful and helpful and kind, and to be grateful and to reflect that back to them, but also to go a step beyond that with a two is to at your best, you know, or try it try your best, I should say, is what do they need and to move in their life in a surprising different way? Because a lot of us, I know, at least for me as a night, it's like, well, they didn't ask for help, so I don't want to intrude, but but I actually see that as very loving. Like when you step into their life because that's what they're doing for others. Right. And so like my daughter's a type too. So if I see that she has a need, instead of me just asking, like just providing for her, is really beneficial. And like she just feels love, like, oh, you saw that I had a need and you moved in. Or like what she also really loves is surprises like gifts or notes or anything that is very thoughtful to her specifically.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

And they do a fabulous job on this with others. They should do. But us others don't always think in the same way they do. Right. And so they feel really hurt that we don't. Because I think everyone does, and we're we're purposely not doing it, but that's not what's true. And so I have to be mindful of what's special to my daughter. So as a two, what's special to them, and try to offer it, give it, say it, whatever it is, at different points to say, hey, I'm actually thinking about you specifically. Yeah. Like you matter. And that really means a lot to them.

SPEAKER_02 46:46

It's good. I've learned to follow their lead and the things that they do for me and Enneagram2 specifically. I try to take note and go, Oh, okay, I gotta remember that next thing. They'd really like that note in the mail, or they'd like that little gift, or the acknowledgement of this, this or that thing. Because I don't naturally, intrinsically always think that way.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

Oh, I don't at all. So yes, it's absolutely a very um I I have to put my mind to work.

SPEAKER_02 47:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:13

And very and like, but I've also told told twos like people don't naturally think the way you think. That's like a superpower you have. Right. Like let's say you're married and your spouse doesn't think the way you think, and you're feeling hurt, they don't proactively give you the same attention that you would give them is to write down a list for your spouse of all the things that they could randomly pick in the future. Yeah, that's good. That would mean a lot, or gifts, or things that would be really special to you. And I know two's like, well, they should just know. Well, we don't have your superpowers. Right. We do not. And so giving us that a list of like 10, 20, 50, 100 things that we could choose from really helps us that aren't twos to be able to move towards the two in unique ways down the road as a surprise that we'll actually land on something right versus randomly put something that does not need it. Exactly. Oh, it's social wisdom. Love it. So it's like we need we need a twos help for us to help them. Yes, it's so true. It's so true. It's crazy. So okay, so the last but not least is the type one, the moral perfectionist. And they fear being bad, evil, wrong, corruptible, um, not following the right procedures and what's the right standards. So they have a long list of things that need to be fixed and corrected because they have a loud inner critic that is berating them constantly, whether they are being berated or it's showing them what the world needs to be fixed. It seems so exhausting. I'm I wouldn't like I'm so glad I'm not a one. Yeah, it's it is, and that's why we have to have compassion and understanding, like, oh, this is like really hard, like to have that constant barrage of criticism from the inner critic. And so for others to have the compassion, say, Hey, how can I serve you? How can I come alongside and support you? I'm not gonna get it perfect, we're not gonna get it perfect. But I also want you to know that I really do want to have your back. I want to I want to do the best I can, but I also need the grace that I'm not gonna be perfect and you're not gonna be perfect, you know, so it's like this give and take.

SPEAKER_01 49:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

Um, but also just to, you know, when you feel the the let's say the prickliness uh or like the insight from a one that maybe land on you as criticism, but for them they think it's advice giving is to to recognize that that's kind of an overflow of what's already happening tenfold inside them. And just ask the question, hey, how's it going? Um, has the inner critic been really loud lately? You know, what can I how can I help alleviate that? How can I pray for you? How can I support you? Because you're doing a great job. You're you know, I see the good that you're doing, like all of those things would really mean a lot to the one.

SPEAKER_02 50:09

Yeah, I think really pointed questions that tie in specifically to their need of encouragement or support when you start hearing that. I think that's so good.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

And ones do want to have fun, but they have this long list. So what would be really helpful is if you want to go have fun with a type one, is go, okay, let's look at your list. What's the top like three or four things that like need to be taken note of? And what has to happen before we go have fun and let's knock those out. And what can we do when we get back? And for them to see that you're serious and you're like on their side, and yeah, you see the list, it helps them to then go away knowing, oh, we're gonna tackle this. Like, I've got an advocate on my side as well. Yeah, that would be mean a lot to them.

SPEAKER_02 50:56

Oh, absolutely. I have a lot of ones in my life, and I would say, yes, that is it exactly. That's how you would love them. Well, oh this has been amazing. I know that people are gonna leave this conversation and not only have a better understanding of a nine, or maybe even for themselves and go, you know, the light bulb moments that they're happening, but then to think of all the people in their lives and how they can better love them. I mean, that is the beauty right there. I think that's one of the best things, not only seeing Christ and the gospel in a maybe in a refreshing light, but seeing each other in a light and a way to love them.

SPEAKER_00 51:30

And that's really a great way to use a type 9 is if you're not a type 9, type 9, how to treat people because that's the gift we bring to the world. Um, the the thing that the nines need to work on is knowing your own voice, like not just living through other people's lives, but knowing that your voice and your presence matters and living out your true calling. Um, but so yeah, so for everyone else to realize wow, nines have a great perspective. They can get in the shoes of any one type and know how to love and affirm others really well. So use your nines in that way.

SPEAKER_02 52:03

Yeah, amen. I love that. Beth, thank you for all the work that you're doing and you and your team of people. I know your husband and so many people are involved, and just what you're offering for all of us to enrich our lives. It's amazing, so thank you.

SPEAKER_00 52:17

Welcome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

Do you have a better understanding of Aneagram type 9? Well, I hope by the end of the summer here that you have enjoyed our travels throughout all nine types of the Aneagram. You can pat yourself on the back for taking the first step in the Aneagram journey because you tuned in to hear perspective. Now, if you're still looking for some more insight, I have several ways to help you. You can always check out our Instagram feed for weekly Enneagram postings. But you can also get the wholehearted Enneagram Quick Start. This is my step-by-step guide to gain clear understanding on your dominant type. Now, if you're looking for a colorful overview, my wholehearted Enneagram summary gives you the highlights of all nine types on one page. It is so helpful as you talk to others about this awesome resource. And last but not least, I have a few more coaching spots for this month and next. You can still get on the wait list for a free 30-minute consult. All the info is in the show notes or at simply wholehearted.com. I'm sure you're already following your Aneagram coach, but in case you aren't, I know you'll appreciate the plethora of Aneagram resources and information. Again, more details about their marriage courses and book coming out in October are in the show notes. Remember, we want you to invite others to join us, as next week we have an extra special guest on the podcast, mostly because it was a first for me. You may have seen a few advertisements for a new faith-based movie called Overcomer. I was thrilled when a media group reached out to see if I would have the Kendrick Brothers on the podcast to share about their new film. I said yes, of course. Now, it's written and directed by the same team as War Room, another wonderful faith-based movie, so I knew this would be something fun to share with you all. And by the way, my whole family enjoyed getting a sneak peek at the whole film last month, and we would all highly recommend it giving you five stars. I would love to know that you go out and support this message and see it at your next movie night out. Now let's continue to invite others to join us as we pursue perspective, purpose, and plan for a simply wholehearted life.