The Biggest Mistake You *Might* Be Making About an Enneagram Eight

Do you have an Enneagram Eight in your life? Or do you lead as an Enneagram Eight? 

If so, you might be making some big assumptions about this powerful and big-hearted personality. 

Enneagram Eights are often labeled as “challengers” and while this is one of their character traits, there is so much more beneath the surface. 

Joanna Chen is 40 weeks pregnant as we release this episode with baby #2! She has a 2-year-old who is all boy and is happily married to an Enneagram 5. She’s going to share her Typing (or mistyping journey), her biggest struggle in motherhood, and the soul care rhythm that helps her feel like she is winning in life. 

We also end up diving deep into the struggle for an Eight when it comes to vulnerability. It was incredibly profound, you won’t want to miss this insight. 

Say "hi" and follow this week's guest, Joanna, on Instagram.  

Snag your free copy of The Enneagram For Moms Ebook.

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Learn more about the Your Enneagram Type Roadmap here.
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What if transformation doesn't start with trying harder, but with knowing you're already beloved? In my new book, Wholehearted Enneagram: The Journey from Type to Transformation as God's Beloved, you'll walk alongside nine women, one for each Type, through stories, Scripture, breath prayers, and tree metaphors that reframe what growth re

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SPEAKER_01 1:28

Do you have an Enneagram 8 in your life, or do you lead as an Enneagram 8? If so, you might be making some big assumptions about this powerful and tender-hearted personality. Enneagram 8s are often labeled as challengers, and I'm using air quotes. And while this is one of their character traits, there is so much more beneath the surface. And that's why this whole month I'm sharing stories from each Enneagram type and their perspective on motherhood, spiritual growth, and what is really going on inside their beautiful minds. I've invited my personal friends, the ones who have sat in my living room week in and week out, minus our quarantine months, of course, and have gone through my customized Enneagram coaching sessions for moms. You all, really, this is one of my most favorite things to do. On this podcast, I'm introducing my friends to you all. You know what I mean? Especially when I think that you all might help one another. Okay, well maybe that's just an Enneagram 7 thing, but I know you're gonna get so much out of this series. Seriously, each conversation I had was so rich and was filled with goodness. Today's guest, Joanna Chen, is 40 weeks pregnant as we release this episode with baby number two. She has a two-year-old boy who is all boy and is happily married to an Enneagram 5. She's gonna share her typing, or rather her mistyping journey, her biggest struggle in motherhood, and the soul care rhythm that helps her feel like she is winning in life. We also end up diving deep into the struggle for an eight when it comes to vulnerability. It was incredibly profound. You won't want to miss this insight. Also, don't forget to get your free copy of the Enneagram and Motherhood ebook available now on the Simply Wholehearted website. Discover more about your motherhood style and how you can go from surviving to thriving. Simply Wholehearted's Enneagram for Moms ebook was created to help you cut through the overwhelm of your personality so you can overcome your weaknesses and connect with those you love. Hi, my name is Amy Wicks, and I love to talk about the gospel message your heart was created to hear. I'm a Christian Enneagram coach for Mops who loves to share resources which help you be confident that you are the best mom for your kids. I'm a mountain mama who somehow ended up on a cul-de-sac in the Midwest. I was overwhelmed by motherhood, and I struggled to understand my true motivation. But the Lord didn't let me stay there. He helped me turn those challenging moments of motherhood into a wholehearted decision to get intentional with my faith, my marriage, and my kids. I share a broken-hearted perspective of story, but with wholehearted purpose and plans so you can live a life full of courage and abundance. Think of this podcast as your on-the-go mom pal and friend who can't help but talk about Jesus and the Enneagram. So hit to that pile of laundry, or hit the treadmill, or load up the kids in the car for that grocery run. Get it ready to be encouraged and challenged while you listen. This is the Simply Wholehearted Podcast. Well, Joranna, I think you are here. Like the sole purpose of this conversation is to help debunk some of the myths, some of the legend of Enneagram 8. What a setup, right? Yay! It's all on me. I'm representing. No, it's so good. I think that's what I I've loved in doing these conversations is that it's an opportunity to go a little bit deeper than the t-shirt, than the mug, than the memes, all the one-dimensional aspects that are get shared about their out there about each personality and go, okay, really what are they thinking? How are they really processing things and and a grown compassion for one another because we all got our stuff, right? Yeah, we all got our issues. We got work through. We do. Okay, so I have loved getting to have you in my living room on my couch through the years and our really rambunctious mom's group. Crazy. It's so fun. So I would love, instead of me spelling out the journey as I see it, I would love to hear the journey as you have seen it and really discovering how you lead in life.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

So a couple years ago, yeah, just about a little over two and a half years ago, I read uh The Road Back to You, which didn't really help me figure out who I was, but it helped me understand like there's a lot of different dimensions within the Enneagram personalities. And I know that you're all of them, but it it kind of helped me learn about people around me better. But it didn't really help me. I was like, I still don't know what I am. Um so when I came to your mom's group and I was like, I'm just gonna decide that I'm a two, because I felt like 50% of it felt great. Um, and I think it's a classic thing a lot of Christian people tend to lean towards because it's praised. And I was like, yeah, and this feels like me. This is great. Um, so I kind of just went along with it. And then we were reading through it, and I'm like, huh. Not sure this is me. And then I'm looking at our friend Peyton, who's a two, and I'm like, hmm, I don't think this is me. So then I started to go back and then I was like, okay, I've got it. I'm either a three or I'm an eight. And I can narrow this down. So I started to read through them. And I really wanted to be the three. That's awesome. Which, you know, everyone's own journey. And I'm reading through the eight, and just things are poking out, things are hitting me, and I'm just like, why am I fighting who I am? I this is like this is describing some of my struggles, and that's okay. I think it's hard to decide what your core struggles are in learning about the Enneagram. It's admitting to yourself, like, oh yeah, I totally struggle with this. It's easier to be like, oh yeah, me too. I have a hard time with not getting out every day, and I need to see people, and I'm social, and I'm like, well, is that really my issue? Is my issue something else that I'm not willing to admit to myself? And then I I was sitting in the hammock one day, and this was during a time of fasting, so I was kind of already vulnerable before the Lord, and I just stopped and I was like, I don't know why I can't be honest with myself. And I use the word honest and vulnerable. I don't know why I can't be vulnerable with myself, and I also can't be vulnerable with you. Wow. And then I was reading how our struggle of the eight is to be vulnerable, not just with others, but with themselves. And I was like, okay. And then after I accepted it, and I just felt so much freedom in it, and I was like, okay, this is what the Endneagram is for, to find freedom in your struggle. And so I don't know if that answers your question.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

I am like, drop the mic, we can hang up the call. That was remarkable.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

I might not be that intense for everyone, but for the season of life I was in, especially after loss, and then because I had a miscarriage, and then I was nearly pregnant, and then we were getting thrown into quarantine, and I grew up with an unhealthy eight in the household, and we fought a lot, and there was recent reconciliation in that. And so once that happened, I was like, I don't want to be the eight, I don't want to be just like this person that I grew up feeling hated from or feeling not loved from or rejected from. And then, you know, once I realized that I was just choosing to run away from my feelings and opening up, I was like, honestly, learning about a Neogram 8 has given me a lot of tools and the ability to just have freedom in who I am.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Oh wow, that's so good. I love it. I think that's remarkable. You point out something that I have a feeling there are plenty of people who are still not having those aha moments or feeling misunderstood and confused by the Enneagram, or just not had the full benefit of the Enneagram as they could, because they're just maybe figured out one in their tri-type or even a line of stress or growth, but they haven't figured out their dominant type. And that is relating it back to our family of origin. We could have had an experience that tainted our view of a type of personality, or we have maybe spent a majority of our life trying to not be as that person, was and is.

unknown 10:51

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

I can feel that. Uh-huh. It can be sticky for some people. I know it's caused them to just, I don't even want to read anymore about this. I don't want to deal with this. I don't like this. This makes me really uncomfortable. But you did the heart work. I am just kind of curious to know because our mom's group, we didn't really go through a book. We didn't just talk about it. I created specific things because I had you all in my living room week in and week out, we had tons of conversation about the mother wound and how do we have a mom schedule and breastfeeding and pregnancy and sex and all the things. And so when I wrote the material that we would go through, I really wrote it for you all in mind. And so I'm curious to know what was maybe one or two of the things that we talked about that either helped you land on, oh, yeah, I'm a type eight and I lead as a type eight, or for you was helpful going, okay, now that I know I lead as a type eight, this is something that I can be aware of and adjust, or you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_02 11:56

Definitely one thing was realizing that I'm future focused was actually really helpful for me because a lot of times I get so excited planning for the future, and that's where I thrive, that it can be hard for me to stay in the present with Liam, my two-year-old son, who's very in your face. Uh-huh. So he loves that kid. And I think he's future focused too. But reading about the different types and how they're either past or present or future, it actually helped me narrow down. I was like, I don't think I'm a past or a present. So that knocks out six personalities. And then realizing that I was future, then it gave me eyes. I'm like, okay, now I can recognize when I'm being stuck future thinking and just stay in the present, or maybe I need to revisit the past and bring up a past conversation or something like that. That was definitely really helpful. And I never thought about that before. How do I think continually? No. No. I would have never thought, woke up one day and be like, yeah, I think about the future more than anything. No.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

I totally agree. I have loved that insight and that understanding with my kids. Kind of how you mentioned getting a picture of your two-year-old and going, Yeah, you're not going to be able to figure out his dominant Enneagram type at this point in time because you can't have that conversation with him. But when you go, Oh, there it's always what's next, what's next, what's next, and you know, talking about what's going to happen and not really even taking time to have gratitude for what they're in the middle of or what was. Yeah. It's very helpful to have a little bit more compassion when I want to go, just be grateful for what we're doing right now.

unknown 13:40

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

I spent 20 minutes making this craft. Now you will do it.

unknown 13:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:45

And you will love it. Oh, so good. Well, kind of speaking of that, what does it look like in everyday life? You know, a day in the life of an Enneagram eight mom with a two-year-old and one ready on the way, ready to be born any minute.

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Um, well, right now it looks like a lot of lounging because I'm 37 weeks tomorrow. But I think for me, what it looks like just for my personality and how to help my son have a good life, because you know he's not in school and I have him 24-7. Mostly it's just like I wake up and I think of a couple of things to do that day, and then I try my best to make it through with patience and grace and lots of activities, but I tend to stay home since learning that I'm an A, I've actually put more for focus on building community for myself, like in motherhood, and that has actually helped him thrive. Wow, I was always such a homebody, and I was homeschooled growing up, and okay. I saw my friends once or twice a week at church, and I'm like, yeah, that's just what moms do. And then my son, who is very much wants to get out, wants to see people, and I just had to learn and adjust to that, which I'm trying because it's good for him.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Yeah. No, this is good. I'm curious to know what is the motivation. I see that consistently, that makes a ton of sense for the type eights that I know and love and have friendship with, or who I coach. What is the motivation in the desire, or you think even what's propelling you to be inclined to be more of a homebody than thinking about let's get out and about? So maybe as a seven, a seven doesn't even think about it. They do it or die. So that was my motto, all through motherhood. How many things can we pack in a day? So for you, you may have not even thought about it, but I do think that's an interesting, uh, kind of a shared value system of the type eights that I know, in particular women. Is getting out with their kids well, is staying maybe in yeah, inclined to being a homebody.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

That's a great question. I personally actually am not friends with a lot of eights, which I think is very common. Totally common. Um I never realized that a lot of eights tend to be homebodies. So that's a good question for me. I love being homebody because it's I don't know, it's almost like a place of control for me. So, like for my son, I know all of his toys that are here, I know everything he can get into. I know all my cleaning supplies are, there's no embarrassing, oh he threw a bottle of bleach on the floor in the middle of Target happening, stuff like that. Um, so I think there's a place of security and there's a place of being known. Like right now it's easier because my husband's home and I don't want to get out because I'm pregnant. But even before that, when I didn't want to get out, I just wasn't even a thought. Like you stay home, you don't get up and go out. Like total opposite of you. It's so funny how different I would think when I wake up in the morning. Um, and I get out because I either need to do something or I'm getting out for Liam. Yes, that's pretty much it. Because home is safe. I can control everything here.

SPEAKER_01 17:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:33

I love controlling.

SPEAKER_01 17:36

I am so glad you used that word because that was the word that I was wondering if that really was a motivation. And it makes sense because it's your environment is as controllable as possible. Certainly the most controllable situation that you could face in particular as a mom with the toddler. I think that's really interesting, Key. And I want to just touch on this a little bit is tell me about your circle of friends, because I know you brought that up that you needed to become, you were aware of becoming more intentional with community, which leads to the vulnerability pain point. And it sounds like this might be the case, but has your circle of friends been fairly small your whole life? Yes, always.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Um, and now realizing as an adult, I'm actually friends with a lot of fours. Um and I think it's because I just value the strength in being able to be open and raw and emotional and just like big feelings. My mom told me all growing up, she was like, you're an intense feeling. So if you feel sadness, it's really intense. If you feel anger, it's really intense. If you feel joy, it's really intense. She's like, and these are great things, but sometimes it can make you scared to go into different emotions because it's like it's all or nothing. Either I'm a at a 10 or I'm at like a one or two, and there's not a whole lot in between. And the four can be like that sometimes, with like feeling overwhelmed or just thinking about life and meaning of life and all these things, but they're able to communicate that with others and have a conversation about it, and generally that doesn't happen as easily for me. I've noticed that I've surrounded myself with a lot of fours, uh-huh. And the two people I'm closest to are fours, so that makes fours and nines.

SPEAKER_01 19:24

Yeah. Oh man, I think this is mind-blowing. I mean, there on so many levels, I can't even talk about it all because we don't have as much time. But I hope literally thousands of people hear this and have this understanding and insight to an Enneagram 8, because I can tell you for sure you're not the only one. And I think that is a huge insight for those of us who know and love or who are trying to know and love Enneagram 8s, because I'm sitting here, I'm raising an Enneagram 8 daughter, and everything you said is totally true. And it helps me by understanding and hearing your perspective. Not only can I go to you and all my Enneagram 8 friends, I go, okay, help me out. I've got a teenager and she's an eight, and this is hard. And um, and so we can have a conversation about it, but I think kind of what you said, it's kind of one or it's ten, and it's the idea of passion, right? We're so passionate and it can be used for good or it can be really, really bad.

unknown 20:31

Right.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

Yeah. And I mean, if you're friends with dominant AIDS and you know that they're dominant, a lot of times it just looks like bringing it up and asking. A lot of times we won't bring up the conversation with a heart to heart about how we're really doing. And you're like, Oh, how are you? You're like, Oh, I'm good. Be like, no, really, like, and be specific in your questions. Be like, I don't know, if the car broke down, be like, How are you thinking about the finances and fixing your car? Are you stressed about that? That's a very specific question that I'm like, okay, they genuinely care about my answer because they're asking a very direct question, and I trust and love this person. So, um, if you're friends with type 8, ask them specific questions about in going deeper. And they might open up a little bit, they might open up a lot. I will say the people that I'm closest to. It's not until like year two or three in the friendship that I feel like really okay, I can open up. And this may just be because before I didn't realize that I was a type A. So I didn't know what I was fighting against in the vulnerability trigger. Um, but now that I know, obviously I can push through those a little better. So if they're slow to get to know you, they might think of you as a close friend, and you're like, I don't know anything about their life.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Yeah, that's probably typical. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

No, we love you. We'll tell you.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Yeah. Well, and okay, so that makes sense right there. How you phrased the way you need to be asked. It needs to be specific and it needs to be very clearly below the surface. A quick, how are you in the hallway is not going to suffice if you want an honest good answer? So the four is going to be really great at asking that detailed because they see, they notice, uh-huh. Yep. Yep. And they're going to get straight to the heart of the matter usually. That's just so brilliant. I'm kind of curious to know. The the reason I'm asking is multi-layered, but as a child, did people perceive you as shy?

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Uh, not really past the age of like eight. Okay. Um, before that, I was pretty shy, but I had quite a few core people who were feeding into my life quite a bit and who were constantly giving affirmation. Like, I grew up as a pastor's kid, so like our youth pastors I was really close to. That just gave me a lot of strength to just be like, ma'am, I'm who I am. It wasn't until I got older and I got kicked into the real world and stuff just happens that I may be shy in certain instances, but now I'm like, Oh, I think I was lying to myself. I don't think I'm ever shy.

SPEAKER_01 23:21

I think that's so great. And I asked because I think the vulnerability piece is tied to re the reservation. And so that's why I know you even at one point a couple people were going, well, is Joanna a nine? Because there's an element of reservation that you carry. And I know a few other nines who are women in particular. There is some cultural pressure to carry a reservation. And that only reinforces the message that you can't be vulnerable. It's unsafe. You fear betrayal, you know. So kind of all those tied connected. So it's the assertiveness of an eight, even though you fit in that assertive stance, doesn't look the same as a three and an eight in particular, because there is a reservation and guardedness that isn't typical of your assertive person. So as a kid in particular, in their early years, I think there is a tendency to see some of those shyness, but it's not really because they lack confidence because they don't trust you. Right. Can I trust you? And their circles small.

SPEAKER_02 24:33

Yes. Uh this is something I love mom with. You can have small circles and then you can have big circles of acquaintances. There's it's just each person's different. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

I think you carry your relationships really beautifully and really well. And I always knew that you were doing really great when you showed up to group. And I knew that that there was a stretch in that for you. But you came, and I know that relationships, specific relations that you have with the girls in that group have have just really flourished. And I know I benefit from getting to know you, and I know those other women do as well. So thank you for giving that and being willing to be vulnerable with a group. It's not easy. And I I know what a big ass that is. And so I respect that and and honor that a lot. I love my Enneagram Eight friends. Seriously, they're some of my very best friends are Enneagram Eights, and for all the different reasons. So well, I'm kind of curious because we have talked about that this is our you get to kick off our series about motherhood in the Enneagram, Enneagram for moms. Oh no. I decided to start it off with the eights because, well, let's be honest. The eights really like it when we start things off with them.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

Yeah, you said that, and I was like, I kind of like that though.

SPEAKER_01 25:52

I know you do. That's why I do it. So one of the things we wanted to touch on was just giving us a glimpse about what stresses you out the most about being a mom as it relates to your personality. And I know you're still figuring that out because you're really only like three years into motherhood, essentially, counting pregnancy. But anything that sticks out to you.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Well, I think this is typical for a lot of personalities. One thing is the constant meeting of me. Um, but I think that's pretty normal. I think another thing that's more related to my personality is when they were young, like right now, Liam's two, and there's a moment of stress, and my tendency and stress is to go towards anger, is reminding myself, reminding myself that I'm not a terrible mom when I get angry. Realizing that anger is actually just I don't want to say it's who I am, but it's my natural personality tendency, and there's God-given reason for that. And so I like to remind myself with a verse that you know the Lord says to be angry and not to sin.

unknown 27:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

And I know a lot of that's dealing with justice issues, but in the moment when, for instance, Liam throws a glass water bottle full of water on the ground for absolutely no reason when your response is to go immediately, it's anger is remembering that I'm not necessarily sinful or a bad mother for my first response, but it's how I respond within the anger and cooling myself down and be like, Okay, go get the towel. We're gonna clean this up, and not getting stuck in a cycle of guilt. Really, it's a cycle of guilt and shaming yourself for feeling anger. Like, no, that's natural to feel angry. Your child just threw your favorite glass bottle full of water on the ground. It comes down to almost I'm angry that he doesn't understand. So, like, I'm angry at his innocence and the fact that he doesn't he can't process through those things that as an adult, I if I drop this on my tile, it's gonna shatter because it's glass and it's full of water, so it's gonna go everywhere. But he doesn't have that processing, and it's really hard for me to understand his innocence in that. Um, and I think part of that comes down to being the youngest of five and being an eight. There were moments where I felt like I wasn't allowed to be a child, and they're like, Well, you're being illogical. I'm like, I'm four, of course I'm illogical. But because they're all older than me and by a significant amount, they're gonna assume that and I'm gonna feel that. So I'm gonna be like, All right, well, now I have to be a logical person at four years old, and I'm gonna pick this up and put it on myself. You don't understand logic. So I'll talk you through it without the anchor. Yeah, don't feel glass on the ground because it breaks, you know, and it's really frustrating, and some moms can't handle this great, and some moms don't even understand it. They're like, Oh, they just don't know. I'm like, but they should. They're human, it's just it's a natural thing. The glass breaks when it hits the ground. But as an eight, I'm like, he doesn't have to be older than he is, he doesn't have to understand logic. I just have to communicate calmly to him or go upstairs and scream in the pillow first and then come back downstairs. Yeah. I'm like, get the anger out in a healthy way. Come on, ladies, who are eights, get a gym members, we'll really help you.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

I promise. Amen. Uh punching bag, all sorts of outlets. I'll just blame it on my eight-wing. I've always loved um kickboxing. So I always wanted a punching bag in my basement or something, so I could go. I think you illustrate such a clear struggle for all of those in the gut triad. And the eight, nine, and one all have that gut anger response. And it's driven by the need for justice and it looks different on each type. And I know we cover that with the nines and ones. For you, it can fly out before you even think or feel or understand what you're feeling. Yeah. And you've illustrated really well of going, it's not about the getting angry. Anger actually reflects an emotion of God. It's how you carry that out. And then it's also tied to the need to control, which I don't want to say ad nauseum here, but that's a real issue. And you can't control two-year-olds. We want to. Oh, I want to feel bad.

unknown 30:47

We can't.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Nope. And honestly, I've learned you can't control 13-year-olds either. So the rest of my life, then, is what you're saying. Yep. We just need to figure out this control issue before it gets the best of us.

unknown 31:02

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Uh, this is good. I love that story. I think it was really great. Okay, well, as we wrap up here, and there's so much more that I would love to talk about and to, you know, dialogue on, but I thought it would be fun to do some rapid fire questions at the end. I I'm asking everybody all the same. You're prepared. Don't worry. These are not surprise questions. The first one is if you could, in a word or in a phrase, what does it look like to flourish as a type eight?

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Flourishing for me as a type eight is being a place where I'm willing to be vulnerable with myself, with the Lord, and at least two other people of my life. Wow. So if I can be vulnerable with two other people in my life, I most likely can be vulnerable with the Lord and with myself. And that is a healthy state for me. And when I'm not willing to open up or see friends, then I know I'm I'm not in a healthy place. Do they know that about you? Yeah, they do actually. They're both voice. They do. And my husband, he's a five-wing fool. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

That's awesome. That's awesome. I love it. Because then those are the people who where true accountability happens, they know, oh, this is where I need to dig and push a little bit and nudge Joanna and be like, hey, what's really going on? So that's good. Okay. So for you, what soul care routine has made a big difference just in your general life, but also as a mom to help you be a better mom or be the mom you want to be.

SPEAKER_02 32:37

When you said soul care, the first thing I thought of was exercise, which now is a physical thing.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

I think that is super spot on. I think what is fascinating is that I know I had an Enneagram 8 friend reach out to me and go, I know stillness is the counterpoint for an eight, nine, and one in particular, but I find, you know, a bike ride to be so therapeutic and you know, what does that mean to be still? But I know what works for me and how does that look? And I have found that it's stillness from, and even it seems counterintuitive to for a nine, but stillness for an eight looks like surrounding themselves with stillness. And I think that is why going out in nature in particular, as you mentioned, or let's say diving in a pool, where I know when I swim laps, you kind of enjoy the white noise, right? If you don't have earbuds in, there's a tuning out of the world. So there's a stillness and a quiet that happens, and everything around you is still, even though you're moving, there is that counterbalance that happens for an eight in particular, and getting out in nature is super important. I think it's also pausing from the typical drive of what you do. It stillness might look just doing something different than the normal, you know, doing all this typical, you know, cleaning the house and taking care of my child and checking all the boxes of relationships and the needs around me and doing something for yourself. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:15

And it might be because for me, working out, I put my son in child care. So it's the one hour of the day that I am not around someone else. Well, I mean, like I'm around strangers, but I can tune that out. Yeah. And it's not that many because it's still COVID. Um that's right. And when there's no one else there, then I can like be still and I'm like, okay, what do I need to process? What do and so maybe that's why the gym, but for others, I'm like, go for that walk. Or for me, I used to be able to drive and I could process. I can't do that anymore because when I'm driving, I have a two-you in my car.

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Really loud noise happening in the back.

SPEAKER_02 34:56

So, what you said is really good, like being in nature or even like in the pool, the white noise. You'd just break from your weekends. You see me moving around. I'm a med ball, that's why I'm like bouncing.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Kind of bounce. I know I'm kind of like joining you. You know, you're kind of getting that baby bounce happening. You gotta get ready. Oh, I can't wait to meet this new little one. Okay, last question, not least, but is there a spiritual growth book or books that you either look back over your life and you go, oh, that was really meaningful. And I bet a lot of type eights would find this helpful, or maybe one recently that you've read that you go, oh, I feel like this was written for me for type eights. Yeah, I don't read a lot of books.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

I do listen to audio books, but the most recent one that I found was helpful for me was The Power of Habit. Ooh. And this might just be me personally, but there's something about someone breaking down how your body and your mind actually operate, um, and hearing the science and the logic behind it that helps me put things in my life to have like that. I needed a habit in that helps me break out of a cycle of depression. Wow. Um, which for me was exercise when they were talking about it. And they said a lot of times when someone does one thing, they just start with one thing, whether it's making their bed every day or eating healthy or going to the gym, they start a new good, powerful habit for themselves. They do one thing, a lot of other things start to fall into place. And I'm an eight-wing nine, I have a tendency for being lethargic and just like wanting to escape from the world. So TV, phone, all the goodness that you can kind of just like veg out, mm-hmm. Thumb out. That book helps me to put something in place to prevent me from being able to do that on a consistent basis in an unhealthy way. Brilliant. Obviously, it's okay to veg out. Sometimes you just need to lay there and not think about anything, but I had a tendency to do it too much. And the power of habit was like, hey, this is actually what's going through your mind, and this is how you break that cycle. And for me, adding the gym broke that cycle, it's helped my life a lot. I think that's why I've been able to process who I am as an eight the past, I don't know, what has it been like six, seven, eight months? Was because of that. Otherwise, I would have just been like, eh, I don't want to deal with my emotions.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

I'll just watch TV. If I don't have to see Amy regularly on her couch, then I'm just gonna forget about it. She's not asking me all those hard personal questions anymore. I can get away with it. Oh, I love it. Oh, this is so good. Joanna, this has exceeded my expectations. I know you were a little hesitant at first. You were like, sure, and then you're like, no, I don't want to do this. I thought it was super fun. I know that what you have shared here really is gonna help a lot of people. And just thank you. Thank you for your willingness. Thank you for your vulnerability. I mean, you cannot get more vulnerable than this. Now, I'm guessing that there were a few key takeaways from this conversation, whether you are a BFF with Enneagram 8 or you lead as an Enneagram 8. I am so very grateful that Joanna was willing to share so vulnerably with me and you. I'm praying by the time you listen to this episode, she has had her beautiful baby girl. I am usually pretty quick to invite myself over with a coffee, of course, and a meal in hand so I can hold a newborn. And if I remember to take a picture, I'll be sure and share in my stories. Now, did you listen to this conversation and wish that you could join our mom's group? I really would love it if you could come sit in my living room too. I know in 2020, meeting and gathering with other moms has been super challenging. And while I work on something special for you, I've created an ebook from the perspective of motherhood as it relates to the Enneagram. I've packed it full of helpful information to not only understand your core fears and weaknesses, but also how each type is uniquely gifted for motherhood. Plus, I worked with a professional designer to make it a really beautiful book to interact with. You can read it on your phone, or you can print it out and refer to it as we go through this special podcast series this whole month of October. I want you to know that you are the mom for the job, and I want to champion you to love it. So until next time, continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for a simply, wholehearted life.