Tending to Your Soul | part #1 with author and spiritual director Tina Webb

To contribute to the Bening Family https://gofund.me/81f75f48

In this three part series, Tina Webb and I are talking about parenting, social justice and understanding your story. She is a mom of SIX kids, so, Tina has some incredible wisdom and insight to pass along. 

Tina has been a homeschool mama for twenty years and she loves it! Besides that full-time job, she’s been an associate pastor, a worship ministry director, and director of a church prayer ministry. She is a certified Apprentice Facilitator in Classic Trauma Healing through the American Bible Society and she and her husband, Doug, were licensed and ordained for ministry in 2004.

As you listen this is episode go download Tina’s free e-book and her 3-day devotional.

Tina has written two other books you will also want to add to your collection:
Culture Changers: Understand the Roots of Brokenness and Help Heal Your Family and Community
Justice Reframed: How the Cross Confronts our Pursuit of Justice

The Enneagram can name your patterns. It can't set you free from them. That's the difference between insight and transformation, and it's the whole focus of this summit.

Learn more, check out the speakers & get your free seat!

https://www.simplywholehearted.com/wholehearted-2026

Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 1:38

My fears will cause me to be controlling. So the more self-aware I am, the more I know myself and what God is doing in me, the better I am to able to avoid being manipulative, being controlling, or projecting my fear on my children.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Hi, my name is Amy Wicks, and I help you navigate the overwhelm and frustration of motherhood through faith, Enneagram, and simple plans. As a faith-based Enneagram coach, I champion you to love your mothering style because you are the mom your kids need, even when you don't feel like it. I'm a mountain mama who somehow ended up on a cul-de-sac in the Midwest, overwhelmed and frustrated by motherhood. But the Lord didn't let me stay there. He helped me turn the challenges of motherhood into a wholehearted decision to get intentional with my faith, my self-awareness, and my family. Each episode of this podcast provides perspective through story, wholehearted purpose, and simple plan so you can discover how to love your mothering style and be confident that you are the mom your kids need. Think of this podcast as your on-the-go mom pal and friend who can't help but talk about Jesus and the Enneagram. So get to that pile of laundry, or hit the treadmill, or load up the kids in the car for that grocery run. Get ready to be encouraged and empowered while you listen. This is the Simply Wholehearted Podcast. We recorded three episodes together just so I could try and capture a fraction of the goodness that I wanted to pass along. We're going to be talking about parenting, social justice, and understanding your story. Tina is a mom of six kids, so as you can imagine, she has some serious wisdom and insight to pass along to you. She has been a homeschool mama for 20 years and she happens to love it. That is amazing in itself. And besides that full-time job, she has been an associate pastor, a worship ministry director, and director of a church prayer ministry. Tina also happens to be a certified apprentice facilitator in classic trauma healing through the American Bible Society. And she and her husband, Doug, are licensed and ordained for ministry and happened since 2004. As you can tell, I wasn't exaggerating about the goodness of what Tina has to offer. So I'm going to get right to our conversation. Now, as you listen though, I would get Tina's free ebook. So you don't forget, you can download the free ebook and you'll also get a three-day devotional. She has written three books that we're going to talk about over these next several weeks that you're going to want in your collection. So just click on the links in the show notes to learn more about the material and also to get more information about the online small group mentoring small groups that she has available. All right, let's jump right into the conversation. Tina, thank you so much for coming on and being a mothering voice to my friends here and to myself. I know that my friends here, we a lot of times we gather around the podcast conversation because but because we're looking for some help as we're we're kind of feeling that like, hey, I'm I think I'm raising myself as I'm raising these kids. And I I just need someone to to give me some wisdom. And so a lot of the the conversations I have are are friends that I'm inviting on or you know, people who I think have something to share with us that we really need. A lot of times what I need. So just thank you for being here and and doing this little mini-series to um be a mothering voice to my friends and myself.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Oh, of course. I'm so glad to be here with you, Amy.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

I I um have shared a little bit about your background to my friends, but if you could, could you elaborate on a little bit of who you are, some Enneagram conversation, and the training you have and and what you do?

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Sure, I'd love to. Uh the Enneagram question is wonderful because I didn't realize it until last week that my Enneagram really informs what I write. That is quite hilarious. Um, but I am a I'm a one wing two. I am a reformer, I am a helper, and it that theme is throughout my books. It is my life, it is what I live. Yes. Um, I was raised by, I believe, a six and a four or an eight, not sure. I also am in the oldest child of four. Okay. And so um, you know, that is a lot of the perfectionism and the drive.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

And um, I like you. A fellow oldest of four kids. You give me.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

Yeah, and then the nurturer that comes out of there because we are we are women. And um, my background, I went to college, got a degree in English, and a degree in music, uh, started formal lay ministry in 1998, and you know, led women's groups and worship ministry and prayer ministry, and even spoke a few sermons from the pulpit. My husband and I were actually ordained and licensed in 2004, and we were associate pastors for five years, but then 2009 was a life shift. Our youngest child at that point was 10, and we had another baby. And then two more years had another baby. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

So definitely a life shift.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Exactly. I had babies, teens, and my oldest child prepping for college.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

Oh man, oh man, yeah, that's a juggle.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

That was a juggle. Um, I had did homeschool for 20 years.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

Oh my.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

Started writing formally in 2014 and did publish the three books in the last year. Um, and now I'm back to lay ministry and mentoring moms and just, you know, getting through life and still raising kids. Yes. And I know you understand.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Because you've yes, and you've launched some, but you're still in the process of launching some. So you're in the thick of it in a lot of ways.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Yes, I am. My oldest will be 30 in December. And actually, I'm looking forward the day to the day when I have grandchildren.

SPEAKER_02 8:39

Absolutely. Absolutely. No, that is a good, good day. I feel like it's our reward for for our kids surviving whatever whatever it is we dished out unknowingly in our in our weakness and our immaturity and our figuring out what this parenting thing is all about.

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Figuring it out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Absolutely. I love it. Well, um, I I think a lot of your training just from life in general, but in in the local church and the local body of Christ has informed your writing, your material. I have read through it. It's it's deep, it's rich. I I appreciate how you get to the point. And there's not a lot of fluff. And at the same time, you really evaluate story and story work. So in this mini-series, we're going to touch on a few things. We're going to start with parenting, the parenting topic. And for my mama friends here, it's it's really motherhood. Um, I'm sure that there'll be content. I know there's content that you write and speak and teach on that is applicable to parenting in general, but today we're going to focus on motherhood. And then we're going to talk about um the culture and generational bondage and story work. And our last will be about justice reframed, which is a newer book that you put out with your son and written um with him. And that's going to be talking about biblical justice and what it looks like, the social justice issue that is in our face. Like we can't escape it, we can't ignore it. So, what do we do as believers as the body of Christ? And I I just am so, so excited to dive into all of these. So the first one, um, and I think a lot of this sometimes even ties into some of our Enneagram personality too. But how could you elaborate a little bit on in on the idea of that raising kids for you and for us is really about uncovering our brokenness?

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Yes. So I remember, I don't remember which child, but they imitated me. And it was something they should not have imitated. Darn it. And I stood looking and thinking, they got that from me. And then it became, oh no, they got that from me.

SPEAKER_02 10:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

And the reality that I am imparting things that I was not aware of, and it's showing itself in front of me, in front in this form of this little child. Of course, as a homeschool mom, I wanted to impart great things, love of learning, music appreciation, those things that really are value, and we want them to walk in that, we want them to be self-governing. I have never, I was not prepared for the reality that I was emoting, I was imparting that my presence and my manner was giving off and making an impression. Wow. And when we think about Plato, and we have the little toys, and they make the indentations, that's an impression in our child's soul. So when I began to see that, I realized what I was seeing was not reflecting Jesus, but my child is reflecting me. And so I needed Jesus. I need more of Jesus in me. That is um the reality of my brokenness and realizing um what I lacked. I knew the Lord loved me. I was a perfectionist, so I was quick to hear what I thought was a condemning voice. But God had to retrain my ear to hear that he was actually my great cheerleader, and he was the one that was wanting to show me so that he could move me forward, up and out of the brokenness that I saw my child imitate at that moment.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

How did you distinguish that inner critic? Because the for the one in particular, I mean, we all have an inner critic in some form or fashion, but for the one, it's pretty loud and obnoxious, and it can be louder than the voice of God. How did you distinguish between the two, especially in this moment where you're convicted and yet the I mean, God is never looking to shame?

SPEAKER_00 13:09

That's a great question. I think there are two times I can remember when I realized it. One was actually when my fourth child was a baby. It was after 9-11, and I was exhausted emotionally. I mean, that was such an impactful time in our in our nation. And emotionally and mentally, um, I was driven and I was trying to do everything. We were doing full-time ministry, although we were part-time. I was homeschooling, and I was burning out. And I knew it was me. I knew I was in the driver's seat. So that perfectionism, I could tell that was the problem. But also, even in one of my children, I saw it in them. And again, it reflected oh, I know what they're doing, I know what they're thinking because that's what I do and that's how I think. And so um it became a desire to um really want God to make me whole. And that perfectionism was killing me. It was the drivenness was too much, it was not sustainable.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

It is really interesting. I think uh motherhood has taught me both the, you know, the reflection piece, like you said, you know, seeing your actions that aren't attractive or are desirable at all. And you don't want your kids repeating that behavior. But at the same time, that whole idea of, you know, God as a parent looking at, you know, loving you in such a better way than I can love my kids, I think that really was, you know, the first time that I one convicted of my unkindness towards my my kids, but then mostly unkindness towards myself. Because I think especially, you know, those of us who are super responsible people, people or type A, all the different ways we want to call ourselves, we can just, we can be so critical and and harsh and unkind.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

We can, and I think sometimes it does reflect our image of God and the way we think He thinks of us. My breakthrough was actually in 2004, and it was actually in Kansas City. Oh, yeah. And I remember sitting, yeah, I sat and I just the still small voice of the Lord whispered to my heart, Tina, I love you. And of course, I'm like, yes, Jesus loves me, you know. Yes, I know you love me. But then a moment later, the thought came in, but I like you. And I broke. Wow. I broke because self-condemnation had been just my real, it had been my self-talk, the critic, critic of myself, critical of myself. And so that was my breakthrough. When I realized the value that I had to the Lord, um, I was able to extend graciousness to myself, patience to myself, kindness to myself, and as a as the and then I was able to release it to other people around me and my family, my kids.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Yeah. Wow, that's really good. I'd love to know more about your your thought, or maybe even how the Holy Spirit compelled you to write this book, what it was that you felt like. I want to offer this in this, you know, easy to digest format to to other moms, other parents.

SPEAKER_00 16:43

The book began as a diary, as a journal. I processed by writing. And it was probably at around, and that started in 2014. I started a mom blog and I would just kind of write unedited. And the book thought actually came only two years ago. The first book that the Lord put on my heart was called Cultivating the Souls of Children, and that book will be written. But the Lord said, Tina, no, write this one first, cultivating the souls of parents. And it was hard to write. It took me a long time to be willing to shed my mistakes and my weaknesses, and just to be vulnerable and transparent through the pages. But to realize that we're all in it together, we're all sisters in it together, and we need each other. And every voice, even my own and my story, may impact someone else. If I can impart to someone else something that I've learned, then let me just write it down.

SPEAKER_02 17:53

Oh, but easier said than done because it's being that raw and transparent, it's tough, especially for a type one who, you know, the message that unfortunately the world reinforces that you have to maintain image and you have to maintain being good and right because that's what you want to hear from people.

SPEAKER_00 18:14

Yes, and I do talk about that. I talk about the mask and that we have to be willing to take off the mask. It's such a weight when we realize it, it's it's not who we really are. And we get to this point of desperation. Our story wants to be freed from a self-made story. You know, God wrote our story, Psalm 139, verse 16, and it wants to speak, it wants to be communicated. That's who he designed us to be. Honestly, I used to despise the fact that I was the number one, that I was a reformer. But now, and and even through your ministry, I have really understood that no, I'm wired this way for a reason, and my kids need me this way. That's and it's a wonderful thing. And so I applaud you and I thank you for just what you impart to women and just the way God made us is perfect and it's right. And yes, we are um refined and we become more like Christ, but we still are who we are.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Yeah, no, I think you your whole point about the mask, that is a a huge process. Um, I think in particular, that we need to take not just, you know, for our community's sake, for our ministry's sake, for for all of those things that we know, all the reasons why we hide, but I think the most important reason to remove that mask is for our kids. And I know you talk about that. Um, talk about what it looks like to take some of those steps in honesty and vulnerability with our kids and the impact and the power, um, how we do it and why we need to do it.

SPEAKER_00 19:56

Yeah, so for me it was learning emotional honesty and the value of it. My husband and I had reached a place in ministry um where we just the stress and it was coming out in all of the wrong ways. And we had to learn that the best way is not to suppress, it's not to indiscriminately just emote, but to communicate. And in fact, the Psalms teach us that to acknowledge what we are feeling. David, you know, through the Psalms, there's a wonderful demonstration of being emotionally honest. And the value that would be for me, for us to begin to mentor our kids, to disciple our kids in that. So I'm standing in the kitchen, and um something had happened the day before that caused me a lot of grief. I made the decision. Usually removing the masks begins with one decision. I made the decision. My one of my kids was on the other side of the island, and another one was not too far, and I just began to cry. They didn't see me cry. I didn't cry, but I allowed myself just to be emotionally present and to let them see where I was. And it was the initial spark, really, for us to begin to have conversation as a family to learn how to communicate and emote the way we are in a given moment, in a healthy way, and and just to share our lives and and open up to one another. It wasn't easy, but it was helpful.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

It's not easy at all. So speak to the mom who who's navigating what it looks like to be raw and transparent and vulnerable, and maybe it's really hard with their husband because maybe their husband struggles with the emotional display or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Sure. There are two things that I always um mention to people that is having safe people around, having people that are mature, that will steer us to Jesus first and will listen. That's so important. But the next thing is actually the most important, and that is to be present with the Lord. Earlier, I talked about our image of God, what we think God thinks of us. But when we get to the point where we realize He's actually our cheerleader, we're able to unveil ourselves. He's not offended by our emotions. We can say whatever because he knows it anyway. So I would say to that mom, get into the quiet place and be still and know. And the love of God, the Holy Spirit will release himself, will comfort, will minister, will prove that he is safe and trustworthy. And so the secret place, the quiet place, getting along with the Lord is the best place to first unveil.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

How do we navigate that conversation then with our kids? Because maybe you have been withholding and you cry your tears in private, thinking, you know, having thought maybe that was the better way. Because really what it is, you're like this invitation of vulnerability and honesty, it's not just t telling the truth. It's when things are hard, when poop hits the fan. I like to say that's my PG version. Like that you cry in front of them and that maybe there's some mourning and wailing in front of them, and you're you're not holding it all together. And I I know a lot of us women, we feel like we have to hold it all together and you know, preach and myself here so what does it look like to navigate that emotion with your kids in a way that you not are not just displaying but you know what are what do some of those conversations look like as you explain why why you are being transparent why you are being vulnerable in your hurt and your pain for my own children I usually share with them a story of when I realized my mother's own humanity I had a horrible attitude I was probably 17 years old and she left the room she came back a minute later and said Tina you have to realize you're my first I've never done this before she was completely emotionally honest with me.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

And for the first time I saw her not as mom but as a human being. So I tell that story to my kids because kids oftentimes look to their parents as being perfect. They grow up there's mom there's dad and they're perfect but then there's that point where they start seeing our mistakes and they see our brokenness and I want to communicate to my kids I need Jesus just like you do. I need God just like you do. And so we have a lot of conversation and we have a lot of mess. I mean even yesterday I had a situation at the refrigerator with one of my sons I have four sons and it was messy but sometimes I need to apologize and sometimes those conversations take time to unpack because I'm not always calm and he's not always calm either. So emotionally honest it's like working together working things out being transparent apologizing when needed but taking the first step.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

That's really good. And would you spend a minute in this I mean this is out of left field a lot of these questions I just want my friends to know and understand is we didn't like rehearse these conversations it was like I read the content I kind of said some ideas of what are where I wanted to go but this is me sitting down with a mentor a disciple or a spiritual leader in my life and going help me do this better. So a lot of a lot of my friends' experiences have um looked like where a parent usually their mom in particular has maybe used emotion to manipulate so help us distinguish as we're looking like maybe maybe one of the reasons why we don't use emotion is because we're trying so hard to not do it the way our parent did it and we'll talk a little bit about that you know some of those generational bondages but give us um maybe a better grid a healthy grid to go okay I I get this vulnerable thing but for me in my history vulnerability looked really was more manipulation than it was healthy honesty.

SPEAKER_00 26:27

Sure that takes self-awareness self-awareness is something that we grow into we can always become more aware that's how it was for me. So in the moment I have to pause I have to stop how do I feel what am I thinking why am I thinking what I'm thinking the more we do that the quicker it becomes sometimes I had to at first go to my room for a moment I had to end a conversation I had to end a conflict and just say I need a few minutes to myself and I literally would go to my room and just say okay what am I feeling what am I thinking and why and I would need the Lord to help me unpack and become self-aware the Holy Spirit is wonderful to show us and to um to show us ourselves and to help us discern ourselves. Now I'm a little quicker I can tell I'm triggered I can tell when I feel anxiety I'm more sensitive to it so that I don't operate out of it because my anxiety will cause me to be controlling.

SPEAKER_02 27:36

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

My fears will cause me to be controlling. So the more self-aware I am the more I know myself and what God is doing in me, the better I am to able to avoid being manipulative, being controlling or projecting my fear on my children.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

That's really good. And and that's obviously as you know one of the reasons why the Enneagram is a great tool it's not the Bible it's not the word of God it's not healing in itself but it's a tool of awareness I don't we just aren't born with self-awareness. We're born into a mess a whole mess and it we're born to parents who who most likely had you know no idea what that term was it just was this loosey goosey maybe new agey self-awareness you know what is that all about but um but it's the self-awareness it's the insight and understanding of why you are doing what you are doing whether it be personality or you know we'll talk about some of the the generational bondage that we might be living some of the culture norm or standards or things that that were our uh that we've become too familiar with that they become part of you know what we're doing yeah absolutely and you know I know we're going to go into that but even in terms of our own lives um are not necessarily former generations but just experiences that we have had as children and the seeds of those experiences can stay with us.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

So I my self-awareness is realizing that when I want to change the furniture make uh setup of my room again for the third time there's something deeper going on something out of control exactly that's compelling me. So you know the self-awareness is will track me back to what is really the origin or the root of this because my family is like mom please not again not again oh that's so hilarious.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

I will what's funny to me is and I've shared this a few times you know maybe maybe not but as as I lead as a type seven my line of stress is goes to a type one and so I'm familiar with the downside of the type one and I would have to say yes I would wholeheartedly acknowledge that there have been many times in our life especially pregnancy and postpartum that the need to control does it you know like came to my home and my environment oh it was so strong it was so high and I did drive my poor husband nuts but anyway the the Lord saves the Lord redeems I I haven't moved a piece of furniture in a really long time so I must be doing good you are doing really well I'm slowing that down as well so we both are doing that's great. Well as we as we finish this conversation I wanted to touch on what I'm gonna dub as um mommy fatigue. Help us understand what that is give us give us some maybe permission to call it what it is and then maybe a couple of ways that we can combat that sure mommy fatigue wow it's a big deal and it's real and any season of life it can happen no matter how many children we have it does happen.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

For me when I had two in college two teenagers and two under five it hit I was stretched so thin I was emotionally drained and I was unraveling but it's not like my circumstances could change and oftentimes that's the tension it's not like our circumstances can change so we have to find a way to deal with it what I talked about um self-awareness part of that is my emotional gauge am I being filled is my tank empty where do I go to fill my tank for me it's always been prayer I remember with my third child putting the first two for quiet time she was down for a nap and I would pray for two hours I would usually fall asleep because I was pregnant at the time but I would pray and I would try to fill my tank so there have been different times in my life I've had to discern how do I need to fill my tank but oftentimes even as life has gone gone on it's been you know family issues uh economic issues social issues the stress of it all that does bring fatigue because our children want answers we have conversations that we have to have that are tough and emotionally mentally we don't always have all of the answers um the constant battles the attitudes all of it and so how do we deal with it again for me it's prayer it's self-awareness it's having conversations with people who hear me who will listen who will understand and not even always try to solve my problem but they'll listen and that is so encouraging and so affirming when we have safe people who will listen yeah it does fill our tank.

SPEAKER_02 33:01

It's so true. Yeah and I'm gonna even be spending a whole episode about soul care versus self-care because I know our it is kind of the world mantra right now, you know, especially in the like I don't know the female space for lack of a better term you know you know take care of yourself and you know affirmations and you know you do you and all of that and but they're in a context of the world a lot of that is not beneficial. And so definitely I know that you have um good advice and wisdom in your book and and you know we'll just continue to um have that conversation because I think you know each one of us we need to understand what specifically like you said what fills your cup so you can pour out and and not give not give in emptiness because that's not what the Lord has for us. We can't give from an empty place.

SPEAKER_00 34:01

No we can't and I love how you put it self-care versus soul care I actually lead two groups going through that concept of soul care right now. The scripture says restore my soul the way I think my emotions and that is what the book really talks about Lord restore me.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

I need you I need you to fill my tank and so um I love the way you framed that well I love the wisdom that you have given and I know that you are offering a lot of things. So my friends who are listening today and maybe you're catching this first one this first conversation of this three part series and you go okay I want some more I don't want to wait till next week until the next conversation arrives um you can find out on TinaWeb.net net um I have that right TinaWeb.net has so many resources including your podcast that you have you have um some shorter segments that are do you call them like mom minutes what is that that you call them the 14 minute mom live pause exactly and we can do 14 minutes at the mom live pause we need it we need that pause in our day and um so I think that as you're listening to this and you're like okay I I want to sit with Tina as well and um so grab your cup of coffee or tea go turn on her podcast listen to a couple of those 14 minute pauses as you can or while you're taking a walk and while you're doing some things to fuel your soul and get some more inspiration there. And then check in with us next week for more of the conversation. Absolutely thanks Amy so much remember sweet friend the call is to cultivate your own heart as a mama so you can faithfully tend to your children. I love that you took time today to feed your soul and listen in on this conversation with Tina. Be sure and check out her website to get that free ebook and devotional and to learn more about her books, podcasts and the online small groups which offers mentoring for mamas so you can be a part of that and either get on a wait list or join right away. Next week we will be back with more about becoming a culture changer what it looks like to pursue spiritual emotional and generational healing. Of course it's powerful stuff. I can't wait to share it with you. Also if you haven't heard Apple Podcasts is making some big changes to their platform and I happen to know most of you listen on the Apple Podcast platform which is great because the good news is nothing is changing here at Simply Wholehearted. In fact I have four months of episodes recorded and ready for you but you do need to make sure you follow the Simply Wholehearted podcast so you don't miss a one. As always this is free. It's my gift to you but I would love to know what you think what you think of the episodes what you think of the podcast as a whole by leaving a rating with a review. These reviews are really helpful in getting the word out about our amazing guests so thank you so much. Remember you are the mom your kids need. Continue to pursue perspective purpose and plans for the wholehearted life you desire