Understanding the Value of Your Story | part #2 with spiritual director and author Tina Webb

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In this three part series, Tina Webb and I are talking about parenting, social justice and understanding your story. She is a mom of SIX kids, so Tina has some incredible wisdom and insight to pass along. 

Tina has been a homeschool mama for twenty years and she loves it! Besides that full-time job, she’s been an associate pastor, a worship ministry director, and director of a church prayer ministry. She is a certified Apprentice Facilitator in Classic Trauma Healing through the American Bible Society and she and her husband, Doug, were licensed and ordained for ministry in 2004.

As you listen to this episode go download Tina’s free e-book and her 3-day devotional.

Tina has written two other books you will also want to add to your collection:

Culture Changers: Understand the Roots of Brokenness and Help Heal Your Family and Community

Justice Reframed: How the Cross Confronts our Pursuit of Justice 

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:00

I remember a situation, and this I know impacted me and framed really how I see race. When I was a teenager, I was out with my mom and I saw a person, I think it was a woman, they had been completely burned, must have been in a fire, third-degree burns. And I remember thinking, no one knows what race that person is.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 0:26

Truly, they had scars all over. I could not tell. And from that moment on, it was as if the Lord put a seed in me. Skin color cannot be number one when we identify people. It's the heart, it's the content of our character.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Hi, my name is Amy Wicks, and I help you navigate the overwhelm and frustration of motherhood through faith, Enneagram, and simple plans. As a faith-based Enneagram coach, I champion you to love your mothering style because you are the mom your kids need, even when you don't feel like it. I'm a mountain mama who somehow ended up on a cul-de-sac in the Midwest, overwhelmed and frustrated by motherhood. But the Lord didn't let me stay there. He helped me turn the challenges of motherhood into a wholehearted decision to get intentional with my faith, my self-awareness, and my family. Each episode of this podcast provides perspective through story, wholehearted purpose, and simple plan so you can discover how to love your mothering style and be confident that you are the mom your kids need. Think of this podcast as your on-the-go mom pal and friend who can't help but talk about Jesus and the Enneagram. So get to that pile of laundry or hit the treadmill or load up the kids in the car for that grocery run. Get ready to be encouraged and empowered while you listen. This is the Simply Wholehearted Podcast. Hey friend, I'm back this week with the second part of our three-part mini-series with my friend and mentor, Tina Webb. Last week on episode 195, we focus on the topic of motherhood. And this week we're diving in about becoming a culture changer through understanding your story, pursuing spiritual, emotional, and generational healing. It's going to be powerful, and I don't want you to miss a minute. So if you missed our introduction from last week, let me give you the rundown now because, well, Dina, well, she's pretty amazing, and you can tell by her resume, she's got a lot to offer. She has been a homeschool mom for over 20 years and she loves it. Amazing, right? And she's also been an associate pastor, a worship ministry director, and a director of church prayer ministry. She's a certified facilitator for classic trauma healing. And if that wasn't enough, well, she and her husband Doug are licensed and ordained for ministry and have been since 2004. I'm going to get right to the conversation, but as you listen, I want you to grab Tina's free ebook and also grab the three-day devotional. You can find out more about that and the three books that she has written by clicking the link in the show notes. So while you're listening, go do that because I don't want you to forget or miss the opportunity to learn more or be a part of her small groups for moms that she hosts online and offers group coaching and one-on-one coaching. Okay, let's dive right into the goodness of this conversation. Tina, thank you for coming back. We're gonna just pick up kind of where we left off. We're gonna dive into your work and your teaching on culture changers. So maybe give us a little background on the book itself. Give us some understanding of what it's about and your heart behind it.

SPEAKER_02 4:07

Sure. I was having coffee with a friend who had been sharing with me about her own life and some of the storylines that were present in her life that were giving her grief that dovetailed into talking about her family of origin, where she's from, not just her family, but her region where she was born and the circumstances, the environment that she was from. And I remember there was a thought that came to my head. Oftentimes God puts a seed in my heart with a title. And it was this phrase, the course of the curse.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 4:53

And that was actually the first title of this book. But it was this concept that I knew needed to be written, although I it was a very difficult book to write. But really looking how brokenness transcends our personal lives. We see it on the news and we grapple with it, but we don't quite know or sometimes don't have a vision on how to unpack it and how to become whole, how to get rid of or at least deal with the brokenness around us in a way that promotes, you know, the life that we know that the Lord wants for us, but people around us. So that's kind of the the uh a nutshell, a long nutshell about the heart behind the book and um how it happened, how it was born.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

Yeah, yeah. Could you give us either a little snippet from the book or someone else's story or even maybe your story that would illustrate because maybe maybe this feels a little too nebulous for some of my friends.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

Sure. So um for myself, I shared in the earlier episode about my tendency to want order in my house. Well, that was because my childhood was chaotic, there was a lot of emotional disorder, and um but not just my childhood. When I can trace back through my generations, I'm African American. My parents were children of the 60s, my grandfather, who is still alive and will be 101 at the end of the month.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

No way, that's so cool. Yeah, way that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

He remembers the depression, and I've heard his stories. So part of it is our national identity, much of it is ethnic, our ethnicity and where we come from, our the roots of that, and how they have impacted um the experiences, the mindsets, um, just the the way we lived. Um and so as a result, I find myself fighting against this tendency to really want order, peace. There's this desire. And I think anyone can look at their story, anyone can look and kind of do a flashback as far as where they're from and kind of realize how it informs their present.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

So, what's the process of identifying some of that brokenness and that that generational pattern? It's easy to, you know, because we kind of talk about it pretty normally as it relates to maybe addiction, you know. Oh, I come from a family of alcoholics or uh perhaps even hoarding and some some real maybe extreme examples, but all of us have it. And some of some of those things are sneakier than others.

SPEAKER_02 8:10

They are. And I often um I often answer that question by helping people understand what influences them that they may not even think about. So again, I mentioned region, I mentioned ethnicity, we can talk about generation, and you know, everyone is influenced by something. It can be whether your kids, your parents went to college or not, um, what type of job they have. We're all influenced by something that informs us, but we have to get to the point where we understand well, um, where how are those influences or in what ways are those influences actually um affecting my forward journey or moving forward in the Lord? Are there mindsets that I have? Are there words, family slogans, names that I was called? It can be those little things. I was talking with a mom the other day who recognized all of the names she was called and all the as a child. Now she was an adult, and it was at the point where she realized she had a self-worth issue because of those words. Name calling issue was a family thing. And so there are all these ways that we can kind of um see how our generations actually impact our present, impact our story, the way we live and how we think, and even how we emote. So it is a lot and it looks different in everyone's life, but it can be practical, like name calling, um, that family slogan, the Smiths do this, or something like this, or you know, it can be anything like that.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

I yeah, I can already, I'm thinking of several of them that, you know, maybe it comes out of your mouth mouth and you don't even realize it in response to your kids, um, maybe in conversation with your friends, or even to yourself, you know, we might call it the inner critic or just that inner committee that's speaking really loud. Now, I know in your book you dive into some of the science behind generational bondage. Could you give us a little bit of a give us some of the scoop on that science that I think is really informative?

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Yeah, the science is really, really interesting. And when I I knew I needed to talk about it, especially since our current events in you know the United States, we were actually seeing the dirty laundry of America's history. And we were seeing the protest and a lot of tragedies. But the science behind what people were emoting, um, the pent-up trauma or the pent-up expression has been documented and it's through really brain science. So the science is called epigenetics, and it's the science of our cells carrying memory, our DNA carrying memory. We all know we inherit things, talents, gifts, brown hair, blonde hair, but we inherit much more than physical characteristics. We inherit predispositions, habits, even trauma, even memories. And um it's a fascinating science now. They can see um just even looking at brain scans. And the science is not new. I always talk about, and I think I mentioned this in the book, that science is really learning how God created everything. Yes, we are an amazing creation. You know, the way he put us spirit, soul, and body is truly amazing. And we've understood this language of um sin and how sin has been passed down. And now the science is actually proving that yes, there are weaknesses that are passed down.

SPEAKER_00 12:10

I I did some epigenetic study. Um, easy for me to say, right? Um, epigenetic study when I was working on a curriculum that I had a curriculum, I don't know what I'm gonna call it, but anyway, a few years ago with my small group of women at my church, we talked about being motherless and what that looks like and identified the fact that a lot of women feel motherless because of emotional, uh, physical or spiritual neglect for lack of a better term. But uh in trying to understand that um for a lot of these women, we had to go back to okay, where was a major culture, culture shift? And and we see a lot of them, but in particular about 100 years ago, there was a dramatic change for women in particular. World War I, women were called to serve or to uh work in factories, and kids suddenly didn't have, you know, their dad was off fighting or physically unable to, and therefore not very present. And then their mom is gone. And it was that turn of events that that led off a sequence then of a chain reaction that lands us now where we are, where we're more parented by technology than ever before. Whether we are a mom or as for our kids, like that's a default. And so just some of that, their trauma that they experienced, whether it was the Great Depression then and trauma from fighting and wars and all of that. I just I had no idea that not only spiritually things would be passed down, but physically in our DNA, we would have to work through retraining ourselves.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

Absolutely. And those are some great examples in history. And um, yes, because they changed the way we lived. They changed how we thought about the family. And, you know, and in many ways, as we see over the decades, they changed the um the culture of the family. Um, you know, women definitely achieved a degree of more of who they're created to be, you know, in terms of, you know, we we have gifts and we are moms and we love being moms and we're dedicated to being moms. And but we can be writers and we can do podcasts and you know, we can have businesses. Um, but at the same time, there there are innate needs that we have. And when uh when culture shifts so much, sometimes those innate needs are not met. And so, like you said, we had a generation of children who were lacking uh security because both of their parents were now working, and there was a there was just a different new norm. And I often say, you know, just with the book, um, the heart of the book is to uh align ourselves with the way God wants. This is my Enneagram one. What is God's best? What is his intent for our family life and to align ourselves with that? So that is really the Enneagram number one goal of the book.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

How do we how do we take this idea of culture changers and take it to the conversation we're having today, the race conversation, um, the even some of the political stuff, potential relief religious freedom conversation. I mean, there's a lot here, and I know I'm asking a lot, but what are what are some things that we can can practically do to engage in that conversation, in those conversations in a better way from this lens of there's there's a cultural reason um that we are responding, reacting the way we are.

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Yes. Um I think first and foremost, in order to be effective and really capitalize on um this what I call a movement that God is implementing. It's not my book, it's really a movement that the spirit of God is doing to change culture. And for me, it's being in an opposite spirit of what has become the new norm. You talk about uh the conversations about race, uh, the conversations about gender, the conversations about you know politics. We have to position ourselves. What does God say about these matters? That has to be front and center, which means we have to dive in to learn what God says about these matters.

SPEAKER_01 17:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

And we are in a time when when we can really agree with what God says, that is going to counter culture. When we can reflect what God says, that is gonna, and the heart of what God says, that's going to counter culture. Um, whether it's the culture of our family, or whether it's the culture of our city, or whether it's, you know, just the climate that we live in. Um, but we do have to position ourselves based on what is in God's word.

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Yeah, that's that's good. What are some of the things that you've said in response to the conversations that are of today that you where you can kind of steer that conversation of going, hey, this is a bigger picture than just this specific issue, just the specific tragedy, um, where we go, okay, yes, this is hard and this is real, and and there's some real um injustices and all of that. And we are gonna talk about some of this in our next conversation because you written a book called Justice Reframed with your son. And we're gonna talk about biblical justice, we're gonna talk more about the race conversation, but I think that really honestly, because it's such um such a big thing, I go the conversation about race and social injustice actually begins here with this culture changers. And so, what are some of the biblical aspects that you build um that foundation of culture changers, culture changers on?

SPEAKER_02 18:34

Sure. I um well, identity is one big thing, and recognizing that what we call race is a social construct. Um, all of us are created in the image of God. And I a few years ago had to look at Genesis, which is the origin story really. And um, I had to say, Lord, how do you identify me? He identifies me based on I'm his creation first. And then I just coursed through the first probably 10 chapters, and what that uh showed me is that I'm a woman, language, nationality, region, generation, um, and skin color. Those are later, those come later. I remember a situation, and this I know impacted um me and and framed really how I see race. Um, when I was a teenager, I was out with my mom and I saw a person, I think it was a woman, they had been completely burned, must have been in a fire, third-degree burns. And I remember thinking, no one knows what race that person is.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 19:52

Truly, they had scars all over. I could not tell. And from that moment on, it was as if the Lord put a seed in me. Skin color cannot be number one when we identify people. It's the heart, is the context content of our character, as I quote from Martin Luther King Jr. And so you know, the the discussion of race. Now I understand, and I don't like to use the word race, even in the next book that we're going to talk about. I like to call it skin color bias. Um, but you know, ethnicity, um ethnicity is something that we can appreciate. You know, God created distinctions, um, and we are different, but the differences are to complement one another. Um, I have most of my friends who have been closest to me have been of other races, and and that has been such a rich experience for me. And so um, you know, how does that impact culture? I I'll I'll say it makes a difference when we allow ourselves to um move out of what the biggest voice wants us to do. And and what I'm saying is um for white people to only be with white people, or for black people to only be with black people, or for the conversation to be so um white and black, literally, um does us a disservice. What will help us is then when we talk together. When I go out with my Latino friend and my white friend and we go out together, what is that saying to people around us?

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

You know, that speaks volumes, but that really is the heart of the Lord, and that really will quench some of the voices. I'm kind of losing my track of thought. There's so much in this.

SPEAKER_00 21:57

Yeah, no, but it's so good. No, keep going. Because I think I don't know that my friends are thinking about the fact that we can go to the the beginning of creation in humankind and go, Oh, wait a minute. The culture that we're a part of, our ethnicity, all of those pieces fall way after this idea that we're created in the image of God. And then we're created male and female, which is another hot topic, right? Like, you know, this is dividing so many of us. But if we look at, if you believe the word of God is authority and and holy and what it is that we're supposed to follow, if we just look at that, that answers a lot of questions.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Yes, and you actually said the key word is if. If we believe that the word of God is the authority, if we're going to live like the word of God is authority, that makes a big difference. Um, and it is going to be counter counter to cultural in terms of the times that we live in right now.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

But it's truth. And the word is truth, and it will speak, it will offend. And I know we'll talk about that maybe a little bit in the next book. However, um the the word of God also brings breakthrough and it brings healing. And I believe there are so many people that are thirsty for real truth.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

Yes, yes, amen. Yeah. No, this is good. I love, um, I just really love the direction that we, you know, we can I'm putting you on the spot on all of this. We're just having a I have my blueberry tea here. My teeth are probably stained and it's getting a little cold, but I'm I'm loving having you share your heart because you have a lot of wisdom to share. You've done the heart work, you've done the hard work, you've not just written the words, but you've you've got a ton of wisdom um to share with us. And we we really need it and we are hungry. We're hungry for truth, we're hungry um to know. I mean, for me, I'm compelled to try to figure out how to navigate all of the current events because my kids have to, and my kids have to long after me. And they've got it way apart. I know what I believe. I am confident of the authority of the word of God, and I will live by that and I will die by that. But will my kids? And how can I help my kids see that? And how can I help them have conversations where um you know, and that all of us too, because the whole point I think that you and I have in all of this is that we're not looking to give a statement, we're not looking for a the Twitter response. We're looking to go, there has to be change here. And and I know you you believe for one and you're living as one, is that the change starts with you.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

Absolutely. I love what you said about, you know, just as far as your kids and they're caught up in the environment, whether they want to be or not. And, you know, depending on the ages of our kids, to what extent they're in the conversation or not, you know, that's uh the judgment call of every parent who because some of these topics, you know, we have to realize is my child emotionally prepared?

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

Have I prepared them for this level of conversation? And Doug and I take that very seriously. Of course, we have adult children. We have, you know, we're a black family, and so the conversations we have with our four adults are very different than the conversations that we have with our two children that are under the age of 12. Because for our younger children, we are still imparting to them who they are in Christ first. Um and we we don't want them to um, we need that to be first to set the stage for some of the difficulties that they're gonna have. They're both boys, they're gonna grow up and be black men. The foundation that they need is to be secure in who God says they are before they go out and the world calls them anything that the world wants to call them.

SPEAKER_00 26:10

Yeah, man, that's powerful. Mama friends, I want you to meditate on that a minute because that is where we all, that's where we need to spend our time. Our our blood, sweat, and tears right there. That's good, Tina. Okay, well, as we finish this one, because I want to make sure we have enough time for our third and final conversation of the series, and um, we're gonna be talking about justice reframed. Um, in the meantime, culture changers, and for some reason I'm like slurring on that every time I say it, I feel like, but culture changers, yes, uh, Tina's holding up the book, um, is is one that you can get today. Um, and so what are a few things though that we could do, whether it's like one or two or three that we can do to actively participate as a culture changer? We've we kind of talked about a lot of them today, but what's our action step?

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Sure. I'm gonna be very practical. And these are pandemic friendly ideas because the word is the world is desperate for connection. Yes. And so when you go to the grocery store, yes, you have to wear a mask, but please say hello. Say hello to people. They can't see your smile, but they can hear your voice.

SPEAKER_00 27:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:21

When I go to the grocery store or the places that you go to frequently, get to know the people, ask their names, engage in conversation. That is counterculture right now. People need that. Put a sticky note in your mailbox. Thank the postal carrier carrier. Um, everyone is so stressed, everyone is so thirsty and hungry for some type of connection, some type of interaction. And these are just some really simple things that we can do that our kids can do. Springtime is coming. Cut flowers and put it on your neighbor's doorstep. Yeah, there's some really simple and easy things that we can do in the face of masking and social distancing, but that go a long way and help people feel loved and extend kindness and graciousness to people in this climate that we're in.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

Oh, yeah, that is good. We need it more than ever. Super simple, and boy, do we need to be reminded to do it. Thank you, Tina.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

You're welcome. Thanks, Amy.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

I pray that after today's conversation, you will continue to pursue a life of intentional partnership with God in healing the brokenhearted and repairing relational and systemic breaches. You can make a difference by taking time to explore your story and partnering with the Lord in your healing. That is why I love offering the spiritual direction and one-on-one coaching that I do day in and day out. Enneagram coaching is awesome to find your Enneagram type, but it's even more powerful when it helps you explore your story. If you're interested in having a free 15-minute session to learn more, I would love to book a session and get your name on my calendar today. So there is a link in the show notes for that, as well as a link to Tina's website so you can get her free ebook and devotional. There is so much to learn about her through her books, her podcasts, and you can even join her online small groups that she has open and available and beginning right now. Next week, we're gonna be back to talk more about the social justice topic. Because as you know, last year, almost a whole year ago in June 2020, conversations about injustice began to take center stage in our nation. At the time, Tina and her son were approached by many of their friends about what they thought and what they were thinking and what their response were. And so they took the opportunity to write a book together. They share in this book called Justice Reframed about how the Word of God informs their views and their reactions and their solutions to injustices of all types. And I think their view is really unique and important to listen to because they are Christians, descendants of slaves, and slave masters. So they know what they're talking about and it's worth sitting in and listening. What we can do as believers to bring healing to this nation. Now, if you haven't heard, Apple Podcasts is making some big changes to their platform. The good news is nothing is changing here at Simply Wholehearted. In fact, I have four whole months of episodes recorded and ready for you. Yep, we're gonna be hanging out all through the summer, but you need to make sure you follow the Simply Wholehearted podcast here on this platform so you don't miss a single episode. As always, these episodes and this podcast is my gift to you. It's free, but I would love to hear what you think and what you like by leaving a rating with a review. Your reviews and your ratings really help me get the word out about our amazing guests and these episodes. Thank you so much. And remember, friend, you are the mom your kids need. Continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for the wholehearted life you desire.