Am I a Writer? | a conversation with Enneagram Eight Carla H. Hayden

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Have you ever wondered if you should write your story? Or rather, have you wondered if you should publish your story? Maybe it’s a story that weaves the reader through idyllic settings and simplistic relational issues, or perhaps it’s the story you lived to tell about and the reason you have hope. 

I know that over 5.5 years ago when I started Simply Wholehearted, I wasn’t sure how to write, publish and share a book, but then I discovered hope*writers. Back in the day, it was just a podcast, and they were opening their doors to a group of wannabe writers who could learn from the experts and sojourn with like-minded friends. Since the hope*writers have become an outstanding community of thousands whose mission is to help you determine where you are on the writing journey and get you to your next path. 

Not only are they helping fellow writers like me, but they also were a partner in last month’s Wholehearted Enneagram Summit. The hope*writers team is so amazing to work with. We decided I should record a special episode to conclude the 16th season of the podcast- Today’s conversation is with Carla H. Hayden, Chief Operating Officer of h*w. She also happens to be an Enneagram Eight and incredibly well-versed in Enneagram insight. 

This conversation was so good because we chatted about my top 3 fav things, faith, enneagram, and writing. We also tackle the emotional struggle that might be getting in the way of creating the writing rhythm you desire. Carla is your go-to for clarity and the courage boost you might need. I’m fairly confident you will really enjoy this conversation and be excited to have Carla back on the podcast sometime soon!

Here are a few FREE resources from hope*writers to help you! (psst you can get all of them!)
30- second quiz to see what stage you are at as a writer.
10 Questions to ask yourself before you write a book.
If you want to grow an email list, but don't know where to start, here's a template for you.
Ready for a writing challenge? Join the hope*writers challenge this month!

Tell Carla thanks for being on the Simply Wholehearted Podcast, you can find her on Instagram (@coffee_with_carla)!

Some of these are affiliate links and if you make a purchase you help support this podcast! Thank you!

https://www.wholeheartedenneagrambook.com/

Pre-order Wholehearted Enneagram today!

What if transformation doesn't start with trying harder, but with knowing you're already beloved? In my new book, Wholehearted Enneagram: The Journey from Type to Transformation as God's Beloved, you'll walk alongside nine women, one for each Type, through stories, Scripture, breath prayers, and tree metaphors that reframe what growth re

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SPEAKER_02 1:28

And one of the most common struggles that we hear from writers is that lack of self-confidence. It's the doubting voice in their head that asks, Am I really a writer? Um, you know, we tend as writers, we tend to downplay the fact that we've been writing our whole lives. You know, we because we think, well, doesn't just everybody do this? So what makes me a writer? And not everybody's long-term goal is to be a New York Times bestselling author. It is a lot of people's goals, and we can help you get there. But it sometimes people think, well, if that's not my goal, am I really a writer? And so partnering with Hopewriters, it puts you in contact and connection with an entire community of people just like you.

SPEAKER_03 2:14

Hi, my name is Amy Wicks, and I help you navigate the overwhelm and frustration of motherhood through faith, Enneagram, and simple plans. As a faith-based Enneagram coach, I champion you to love your mothering style because you are the mom your kids need, even when you don't feel like it. I'm a mountain mama who somehow ended up on a cul-de-sac in the Midwest, overwhelmed and frustrated by motherhood. But the Lord didn't let me stay there. He helped me turn the challenges of motherhood into a wholehearted decision to get intentional with my faith, my self-awareness, and my family. Each episode of this podcast provides perspective through story, wholehearted purpose, and simple plan so you can discover how to love your mothering style and be confident that you are the mom your kids need. Think of this podcast as your on-the-go mom pal and friend who can't help but talk about Jesus and the Enneagram. So get to that pile of laundry, or hit the treadmill, or load up the kids in the car for that grocery run. Get ready to be encouraged and empowered while you listen. This is the Simply Wholehearted Podcast. Have you ever wondered if you should write your story? Or rather, have you wondered if you should publish a story? Maybe it's a story that weaves the reader through idyllic settings and simplistic relational struggles and strife. Or perhaps it's the story you've lived to tell about and the reason you have hope. I know that over five and a half years ago, when I started Simply Wholehearted, I wasn't sure how to write, publish, and share a book. But then I discovered Hopewriters. Back in the day, it was just a podcast and they were beginning to open their doors to a group of wannabe writers who could learn from the experts and sojourn with like-minded friends. Since then, Hopewriters has become an outstanding community of thousands whose mission is to help you to determine where you are on the writing journey and then get you to the next step of your path. Now, not only is Hopewriters helping fellow writers like me, but they are also a partner in last week's wholehearted Enneagram Summit, which, by the way, you can still find out how to watch those sessions by clicking a link in the show notes. But the Hopewriters team is so amazing to work with, and I decided that I needed to record a special episode to conclude the 16th season of this podcast. So today's conversation is with Carla Hayden. She is the chief operating officer of Hopewriters, and she also happens to be an Enneagram 8 and incredibly well-versed in Enneagram Insight. The conversation was so good because we chatted about my top three favorite things, faith, Enneagram, and writing. We also tackled the topic of the emotional struggle that might be getting in the way of creating the writing rhythm that you desire. Carla is your go-to for clarity and the courage boost you just might need today. I'm fairly confident that you're really going to enjoy this conversation and be excited to have Carla back on the podcast sometime soon. Carla, I am so glad to have you here. I'm excited for the topics that we're going to dive into today because, well, I'm a hope writer and I have loved the work of Hope Writer for many, many years, hopewriters for many, many years because um, well, I started listening to the podcast when it first came out, and it was perfectly timed because I was beginning to think, oh, well, maybe I've got something to share. Maybe I do have something to write. An old dream from long, long ago that looked very, very different was starting to come about and resurface and all that good stuff. So before we talk about hope writers, we want to get to know you. So Carla, tell us a little bit about you. We're gonna talk about, well, we're gonna find out hopefully your Enneagram type, what it was like to discover that, all that good stuff.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you for having me, Amy. This is so exciting to be here with you. It's so fun to talk with different hopewriters, um, hope writers, and we'll talk about it more later, but it's an online membership community. So it's rare to get face-to-face time with some of our members. So it really is such a privilege to be here to chat with you today. Um, but yeah, I'm Carla Hayden. I'm the chief operating officer for Hope Writers. Um, I was born and raised in San Francisco, California, but I have been based in Indianapolis, Indiana for the greater part of the last couple decades. So wow, I like to say switch. Yes, just a little bit, just a little bit of a change. And when you think about that change happening 20 plus years ago, a really big change. I but yes, but I um I've lived here. This is where I raised my family. And prior to coming on board with Hopewriters, it's really where my professional community has been built, my spiritual community is here. It really is home for me now, even though San Francisco will always be my hometown. Indianapolis is truly a home base for me. Um, and yes, I am a single mom of three young adult children. Um who is engaged to be married very soon. So I'll congratulations. Mother-in-law, very, very soon. And I'm excited. I'm excited about that. Um that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

What a privilege.

SPEAKER_02 7:57

Yes. And I am a healthy Enneagram eight.

SPEAKER_03 8:00

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:02

Good clarifier. Yes. I need to say those things because when I when I meet people who are familiar with the Enneagram, and they'll, you know, they'll freely tell me they're type and then they'll say, What about you? And I'll say, I'm an eight. And the look of terror that comes across that flashes in their eyes. And I'm like, oh, but I'm I'm healthy, I've done the work.

SPEAKER_03 8:26

I love it. That is so good. Carla, I think for women, especially when they lead as a type eight, there are so many challenges involved with that. And then top it off with being a believer and in the faith community as a type eight. Uh just the other week during our summit, we actually had a bonus session about this very issue of about how women in the church in the faith community actually struggle to discover their personality types and to even get out of the box because how some of them put them in a box and want to keep them there. Yes. So I think it's important that you throw that in healthy. But I also hope that over time, as we get the information out, the Enneagram, people hear that you're an eight and they're like, oh, that's so cool. I love eights.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

And I've I've had many people, especially on the Hope Writers team where we use the Enneagram quite a bit, but um, I've had many people really affirm me in that. And so that's been a huge help to step into that with confidence.

SPEAKER_03 9:24

Absolutely. So when you discovered the Enneagram and you're reading through the types, was it clear as day? You're like, oh, I'm so an eight, or did it even maybe take you a little bit to warm up to the idea? Not at all. I'm an eight.

SPEAKER_02 9:37

So we just it was like, yep, that's me. There's no looking back, there's no need to look around. This is it. And and I know that there are, you know, there's debates about should I take the tests, should I just read the descriptions, all the things. You know, for me, you know, we had talked a little bit about the the journey to finding what my Enneagram type was. And I think for me, one of the fun facts about Carla Hayden is I love, love, love taking personality assessments. Yeah. And it too it probably started when I was a young teenager taking random quizzes in magazines in the magazines. Exactly. But you know, there's just something really affirming about being able to answer a few questions and then have someone or something read your mail, so to speak. Yes. And I think there's something in each one of us that just longs to be known. And so that I think is really when I was thinking through and preparing for our time together, I thought, what when did that start for me? And I think that's where it started. Um, in this, you know, silly magazine quizzes. But then as I became a Christian and I learned about things like the love languages and spiritual gifts, I would take those tests and then um pursuing my career in the marketplace. I was then introduced to things like Myers Briggs and Disc and Strengths Finder. And so with each one, there was just this sense of affirmation and confirmation and direction more than anything else. It was less, I didn't look at it so much as like this is who I am, and I'm in a box, but more of like, oh, now I have language. Now I have direction, now I have signposts that can tell me, oh yeah, you're on the right path. Oh, no wonder you keep choosing these types of careers or opportunities. This is where your strengths lie. And so it was a few years ago that I came across the Enneagram. And I think, you know, some people garden and some people scrapbook. I take personality tests. And I'm when I'm looking at kind of chill out, or if I just need a little bit of a zoning out moment, I will take a test. I will take an assessment. And that's probably how I came across it. I think I was probably following somebody on social media that was where I heard about it first, and it was so intriguing because I was like, what is this? Nine types, all that kind of stuff. And so I did take a quiz, I took a short quiz, and immediately it came back as an eight, and there was no kind of like that's awesome, if stands or about. And but and when I read it, it was confirming, like I said, and affirming. And since then, as I've continued to read about it, study it, follow different accounts on on Instagram, it it is truly who I am. It isn't about like, well, I guess this is who they say I am, so I should just be it. There's something that lights up inside of me that says, this is how God has hardwired you. And here are the things that you can offer to a situation or a setting. And here are some areas, here are some blind spots, and here are some things that are really red light indicators on your dashboard when you are stressed or when you are not in the healthiest space, or when you feel squeezed, you're gonna see more of these things. Um, which sadly for the Enneagram eight tends to be what people hear and think about the most the anger side, the the controlling side, if you will. Um, but I just don't identify with those as much. And I think it's because I'm healthy. I've kind of done the work to get to where I can really tap into the healthier side of being an Enneagram 8.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

I think part of the fascination, like you mentioned with uh quizzes, personality quizzes, lends itself to go that there's been a self-awareness journey that you have been on, that you have been intrigued, interested, pulled into like, okay, why do I do what I do? And is what I do the best thing? So, in those lines, because I think self-awareness, God awareness, symbiotic, and the gift of self-awareness leads into so many elements of our life, relationships, work life, motherhood, uh, even as you prepare to be a mother-in-law, right? Like so many benefits to understand, right? Your natural reactions and things like that and how to get along with her. So I am kind of curious, especially with your position at Hopewriters and the fact that for you, uh, creating a career that you really love and that you are passionate about, I know is so invaluable. How has understanding your the Enneagram that you lead as helped you navigate some of that or or feel like you are doing a good job with your people as you lead teams of people?

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Yeah. I mean, you you said it, Amy. I mean, it comes down to being self-aware. It really starts with that. Um, and and not, and you've used this term on on your podcast before, not in a navel gazing kind of way, but really an understanding of God was very intentional in the way that he formed me and and crafted me. And yes, my life experiences have not always been easy or comfortable. There's been grief, there's been trauma, there's been other things that have played into the clay being molded, so to speak, but they're still all part of my experience. And when I can be self-aware of those things and how they have shaped me, but also served me, then it gives me a better, clearer, more accurate grasp on how I can offer my strengths or how I can enter into and use my superpowers. And as I mentioned, what my blind spots are, that it's not all, you know, rainbows and sunshine, that there are areas where I need to be aware of that. And and when I can't be, I need to empower the people around me to watch for those things around me to kind of say, Hey, by the way, when was the last time you ate? When was the last time you got fresh air? Those types of things that are just really basic. Um, but when I feel more empowered to show up as my whole full self, more authentically who I am, with more confidence about how I contribute, in most cases, that frees other people to do the same. And as a leader within Hope Riders, where I lead a team of almost 50 people, it's so important for me to be self-aware how I walk into a room, proverbial speaking, because we're a remote team, but how I walk into a room and what I am empowering and equipping my team to do. And so one of the things that I do at Hope Riders as the COO is I have what's called coffee with Carla. And it is a new team members' opportunity to have virtual coffee with me. And I get to know them as a human being. Yes, we hired you to be on the team. Yes, you're gonna do work with us and for us. But who are you? What are the things that you love? What are the books that you're reading? What are your what are some fun facts about you? What's a bucket list item? But one of the questions I am really intentional about asking is what is your Enneagram number? And the reason I ask that is because when I understand, generally speaking, now I never want to pigeonhole somebody, but generally speaking, when I understand what your Enneagram number is, it also helps me to set right expectations, right expectations for how you're going to process information, how you're gonna view changes that are happening within the company, how you receive encouragement. And that's my job. That is my job as COO is to lead, manage, and hold my team accountable. And if I don't know who they are or how they're wired, I'm not gonna do that well.

SPEAKER_03 17:31

That is so powerful. I've really I've recently worked with a lot more leadership teams, whether church leadership, ministry leadership, and I love it. I mean, it's a lot of work and it's usually multiple hours or multiple days. But the way the what people walk away with is just amazing. It takes that group of people to the next level. The one-on-one is awesome because I love seeing that person, the aha moments, but I only see one side of it. I don't get to see how exactly it changes with their spouse or their friends or with their children. But when I get to work with the team of people and I see the light bulb moments happening happening simultaneously, the laughter, of course, but then also them moving forward in the same direction on a team and realize how invaluable each one of them are to create something healthy and the right synergy going forward. It is just, it's so cool. I love it. I'm like, yes, more people like you use Innegram. Yes, it's so good. Well, with that, a lot of my friends have heard me talk about Hope Writers before because again, I've been a friend of Hope Writers for a long time and I love to share about it um with my people. So why don't you give us a little bit of the inside scoop of what Hope Writers is, and then we're gonna have some fun with the personality as it relates to maybe why you would want to partner with Hope Writers.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

Okay, great. Well, Hopewriters is an online membership community for writers who are looking to share their words with a reader. So we have live weekly teachings with industry professionals. We also have an extensive resource library and we have a membership community. So through those methods, we help writers at any stage make progress in their writing. Um, and we also teach them how to balance the art of writing with the business of publishing.

SPEAKER_03 19:29

And that is beautifully said, of course. It sounds like you've done that a few times. But it's so true. I love how you guys have incorporated the idea of quizzes, which is so great. So we know where we are on in our path and our journey of capturing our words, of sharing our words. And that's also how you treat people within the community as well, is making sure that they're at the right stage for them, that they're at the right place on the path. And I've I've loved, I go and of course, you know, there are sometimes memberships you go in and there's like so much information and where do I start and things like that. But with Hope Writers, you go in and once you figure out where you're at, you just go to that point and you start taking in the information and you jump in on the weekly meetings, the the live engagement there, and you can even be part of some smaller um encouragement accountability groups, yeah, which is so cool. Um, but I love it. I I think I know so many, not just myself, so many who have benefited from this and a lot of a lot of friends with the podcast too.

SPEAKER_02 20:29

Yay, we we love to hear it.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

Well, I thought it was would be fun because of your familiarity with the Enneagram. And because I have a couple times taken just the concept of how why and how you share your words as each personality type. And sometimes as we explore this idea of taking the time to write our words and not just write them, but share them, we kind of maybe hit some obstacles, one of them being our unique emotional struggle. I love to tackle tackle this topic because our emotional struggle relates to so much in our life. And I often think it's the roadblock that we encounter more often than not. And and sadly, we end up when we're not aware of it, we just end up getting stuck. And so I thought it would be fun to talk about specifically just like the three arenas that we usually fit within in our unique way, but we usually fit in with an emotional struggle of fear or anxiety, of shame or self-doubt or control or uh frustration is another way I'd like to put it. So I would love to hear how you've seen hope writers help people overcome, empower them so they can take that next step. So they can not only examine what step they're on and and be there, but then take the next one as well.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Yeah. Well, I think the first one I'll address is the shame one. And you had a different kind of phrase for that as well. Um, maybe self-doubt or a self-doubt, exactly. And one of the most common struggles that we hear from writers is that lack of self-confidence. It's the doubting voice in their head that asks, Am I really a writer? Um, you know, we tend as writers, we tend to downplay the fact that we've been writing our whole lives. You know, we because we think, well, doesn't just everybody do this? So what makes me a writer? And not everybody's long-term goal is to be a New York Times bestselling author. It is a lot of people's goals, and we can help you get there. But it sometimes people think, well, if that's not my goal, am I really a writer? And so partnering with Hope Writers, it puts you in contact and connection with an entire community of people, just like you. Some are right where you are, some are asking those same questions. And so that helps you to not feel alone and isolated in that journey. But there are some people that have been there and then can be guides to light the way and to cheer you on. And so I think in that area of shame or self-doubt, it's hard to go to your family or your friends who are not writers to look for that affirmation because they just don't understand the struggle. They just don't know. And I think with the fear, the fear portion of it, um, you know, there's there's just the reality of am I doing it right? It is this the right path. This is what I'm supposed to do. Am I behind? And one of the things that we encourage all of our members is your pace is your pace. There is no behind. You know, our one of our co-founders, Emily P. Freeman, she's famous for saying that your pace is your pace. You know, there is no behind. And our our community team, the the ones that work for Hope Writers to help support our members, they are really intentional about helping our members not feel overwhelmed because it is. It's a lot of content and a lot of information, but there's no hurry. There's no hurry to take it all in your first week that you're there. Um, you know, and so we do. We have really intentional paths and um benchmarks that we put inside of our library just to help you because we do know you Enneagram ones, we know you like a good checklist. Yes. So we help you with that. Um, and so you know, they're just we provide those types of things. And then I think as far as as the control portion of it, um, you know, I think that there is a place where there's just things that aren't Googlable. You know, you want to you want to know all the answers, and there's just things that aren't Googlable. But you have again an entire community and a resource library at your disposal to ask those questions, and you're asking them in a safe, hope-filled environment where everybody, like I said, everybody already knows they're either right where you are or they're a few paces ahead, and and we've all been there. And that's that's really the encouraging space. It's really saying there's enough, there's enough market for everybody. So there's not, it's not competition, it's not self-promoting, there isn't gonna be kind of sleazy sales. It's just writers encouraging other writers in their journey.

SPEAKER_03 25:13

Oh, it's so good. You touch on a number of things that I think are invaluable to highlight because I have heard, you know, going back to this shame and self-doubt, like you said, I've had a couple of friends and I know what types they are, and it totally makes sense. But it's like if it's not gonna be a New York Times bestseller, then I don't think I can do it. Or if it's not going to be this legendary, you know, momentous uh, I can't do it. And I think this is where I want to just say, okay, well, maybe, um, maybe it won't be, but it doesn't negate the value of what you have to offer to the right people. And it doesn't mean that it isn't just a first step into the journey of that. And I I know that was really helpful for me in that this wasn't my primary struggle, but the book that I released this year, it wasn't my opus. It's not the book that I was just dying to write, but I knew the market, I knew that my people had this question come up again and again and was should Christians use the Enneagram? And so I wrote it, I had so much fun with it. Um, but then I also what was super helpful for me because I struggle with more the fear and the anxiety. And that comes from I see too many ideas, I see too many paths, I I hear all the things, I'm guilty of having too many gurus in my life. And so that's where Hope Riders was like, okay, I'm gonna shut out all the other voices and I'm going to go, okay, what where do they have me on this path? Where am I on this path? And where where do they have me going and what should I do? And um, I think that's really helpful. And then the just control part, like the community piece and the frustration there of coming to a place that is accepting and what you said, full of hope. I think that's really, really key.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Yeah. And and the the thing about it, going back to what you were saying about feeling like you have too many gurus and too many things, the the great thing about hope writers is when you join that community, it is your writing community. You're all there for that one singular purpose, whether you're writing fiction or nonfiction, young adult, Bible studies, homeschooling, cookbooks, whatever it is, the genre can vary, but everybody there is a writer and it's a writing community. And that helps with a lot of that kind of decision fatigue and topic fatigue and all of those things.

SPEAKER_03 27:35

It's like, oh yeah, this is why I'm this is what I'm doing. I love it. Oh, it's so, so good. Well, I this conversation is going way too quickly, or time is for this conversation. But what I would love uh for you to do is share a little bit about what is happening coming up in September for Hope Writers, uh, especially if my friends are like, okay, maybe I've heard about this before, but now it sounds like it could be for me that there's something here with Hopewriters that could maybe help me take the next step.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Yeah, absolutely. Well, we would really encourage you to check out hopewriters.com for more information. I know Amy's got um a special link for you that you can use as well if you decide I don't need to hear anymore. Hope writers is is for me today. And then Amy's got a special link that I'm sure she'll put in her show notes. Um, but really Hope Writers only opens their doors for membership to the public three times a year because our members are very important to us and we want to make sure that we are spending the majority of our time supporting them and providing content and resources that are going to be valuable to their writing journey. And so we only open our doors to the public three times a year. And so that's happening in September. That is happening um September 20th through the 24th. Um, but you can go to hopewriters.com slash join to get on the wait list or like I said, go through go through Amy's link um and she will get you hooked up for that.

SPEAKER_03 29:04

Yes. And trust me, I hope writers always do some really fun activities around this time of year when they're opening the doors, challenges and new information to help you decide. Okay, is this for me? And um, and just this other opportunities to get to have some sneak peeks behind the scene, whether it's like, you know, a little inside scoop of what the teachings look like and things like that. So definitely hang out, keep keep an eye out uh for all the good stuff that's rolling out uh around September 20th, like Carla said. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

And even before then. So if you're not already following us on social media, you can follow us on Instagram, on Facebook. We're gonna be doing some lives there to answer your questions. So you're not gonna want to miss that. And that's gonna be happening actually all throughout the month of September. So if you're not yet following us, follow us. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

It's gonna be a good month. Back to school for a lot of us, and then maybe back to our pen and paper or you know, good old computer and Word programs. Or good old notes app. That's right, that's right. Oh, Carla, thank you so much. This has been a blast. I really appreciate you sharing. Amy, it's been an honor. Thanks for having me. Well, I promise big, and I'd like to think that I delivered. I'm actually grinning to myself as I listen through this conversation again. Now, if you've given any thought to writing, whether it's a children's book, fiction, nonfiction, memoir, or even starting a blog or podcast, I think you're gonna want to get the free resources available to you now through the link in my show notes. And also stay tuned for the exciting announcements headed your way in the month of September from Hope Writers. And as I mentioned, this is the final episode of season 16 of the Simply Wholehearted Podcast. I am taking a little break to gear up for the holiday season of the podcast and to keep working with my clients. Now, I'm figuring you're expecting this holiday season, so while you're waiting for the goodness to drop, take some time to catch up on any of the 210 episodes of this podcast, right? Lots of options for you. And while you're queuing up the next episode, would you do me a huge favor? Please leave a five-star review and give a shout out about your favorite episode on this podcast. It does make a huge difference for introducing this amazing content to others. Remember, friend, continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for the whole hearted life you desire.