Grief and the Holidays | Enneagram One Jennifer James

This week I'm taking this valuable release space to give some free counsel to those facing loss and heartache this holiday season. And if you aren't facing grief, I imagine you know someone who is.

My guest is Jennifer James, a wife and mom who uses her Masters in Counseling to coach other moms, and on this episode, she shares seven tips for us to navigate grief during the holidays.

If this conversation blessed you, be sure and share it with others and let Jennifer know via message on Instagram!

Jennifer is offering you, my podcast listeners, $50 off any coaching package with the code "50off," So shoot me an email at info@wholymom.com with 50off in the subject line, and let's book your FREE discovery call today!

Say "hi" to your host, Amy Wicks.

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Transcript

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

And sometimes what I'm seeing personally in my social realm, there's grief in relationships as well. That relationships have been broken, there's hurt, there's separation going on. So there's grief in there too. So again, all of us have gone through grief or are going through grief, but just remember to allow yourself to process grief.

SPEAKER_01 0:27

I am Amy Wicks and you are listening to the Simply Wholehearted Podcast. Welcome to the fifth app and season of the podcast created to help you prepare your heart with the joy of Christmas, expand your generosity, and find new traditions to help your family celebrate Jesus' birth. If you've ever struggled with frustration, anxiety, and self-doubt, especially during the holidays, you need to know you are not alone. I am here to help you navigate through the overwhelm with faith, enneagram, and sustainable and practical rhythms for your everyday life. So listen along as you dream those holiday lights, walk off those tasty treats, or drive around trying to find that perfect gift. This week I am using this valuable release space to give some free counsel to those who are facing loss and heartache this holiday season. And if you aren't facing grief, I imagine you know someone who is. Now, this topic is something I'm always mindful of, but this year it feels a little different. A small handful of close friends know the details of the grief that I feel this Christmas. But if you've been in this community a while, you have heard me hint at the hard that is just beneath the surface. Now, this isn't just my story to share, so it's not yet appropriate for me to give you all the details in this space. But for now, if you're praying for me, it means so very much. And I thank you. And in time, I will be sharing this story. For today, my amazing guest is Jennifer James. She's a wife and a mom who uses her master's in counseling to coach other moms. She also has a podcast called the Holy Mom Podcast and some fantastic guests to listen to that you will want to check out. Be sure and listen to this whole conversation to get the seven tips for navigating grief during the holidays and share it with someone who needs this counsel and encouragement this season. Well, Jenny, welcome to the Simply Wholehearted podcast. I'm so glad to have you here. Thank you. It's my privilege. Thank you for inviting me. We're going to talk about a lot today. We've got a lot of territory to cover. You and I have gotten to chat before, but you know, per usual, we love to talk about the Enneagram. But we're going to touch on your story, which I want to focus on a little bit, and then maybe even a little snippet because of your passion, your ministry, your heart about those who are traversing grief during the holidays. But before we start all of that, if we were being a creeper and we were peeking in the windows of your home, give us a little idea of what we would see, what's happening here behind the scenes. Sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

So uh right now, my parents are here with us. So that's the first time that they're gonna be coming. Um, you know, they came here on Thanksgiving, so they're here with us. So that's a transition that we're working on right now. I have three little ones. My oldest is 10, Josiah, my second boy, he's five, Benjamin, and Eleanor has just turned three. So I have three kids and my husband, who I've been married to for about 13 and a half years, and um, I honestly have not started Christmas decorations yet. So, because I have a lot on my plate, I just like to be real and raw. Um everything is there on my living room. I plan on doing it today. The plan was to start on Thanksgiving weekend, but it didn't happen. Alas. Um yeah, I just like to be real. I think I have a lot of gifts done already. Uh, I haven't started rapping yet. I've gotten some teachers' gifts already too. So nice important. I'm still working on my PhD. So I'm hoping to be done with my coursework by next weekend. So then I can focus all on.

SPEAKER_01 4:33

Oh my goodness. Okay, so PhD work, are you like finishing, or do you still have a couple semesters to go?

SPEAKER_00 4:39

I still have a couple of semesters to go. This is my first year, and um, yeah, it was a plunge of faith. And I'm doing it in counseling and psychological studies with a major in life coaching. So I'm doing it. So I feel like I'm a testimony um of what I preach that you know, I I like to empower and equip women to do what God has called them to do. Yet, you know, fulfilling their role as moms, as wives, as daughters, um, because it's all about managing our time well. If we manage our time well, then we can fulfill the purpose that God has for us.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Yes, amen. You and I have been talking about Enneagram because you are new to the Enneagram, but you're fascinated by personality tests, obviously, things for uh your field of study and your field work. So tell us kind of catch us up to speed of where you're at, and we might end up having a little bit of a typing conversation, which is always so much fun. But we'll see how far we get and then maybe we'll carry on the conversation for the conversation we're gonna have for your podcast, Holy Mom Podcast.

SPEAKER_00 5:47

So I did the quick test that you sent me, and I have it right here with me. I wanted to get the results because I was uh in between head and dutiful, and I didn't know how to draw the conclusions. And I did another test as well online, and so that brought me down to dutiful and gut too. So I was thinking that I fall into the number one realm, Enneagram number one.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Absolutely. If you are thinking between head and gut, or is that kind of the tear between you? Is it like which one is more okay? I think you're really, really close. So where that would put you is um, but the dutiful is an Enneagram six or an Enneagram one. So those are the two between. So for you, what I like to do is dial into some of the core fears and motivations. And what is it that resonates more with you? Is it to know that you are safe or to know that you are good and right? I think it's more like good and right. I think that just getting to know you a little bit, listening to your podcast and your work, I see some of the qualities and character traits of a one really shine through in all the best ways. One of the biggest differences between the one and the six is the six has an inner committee, but the one has the inner critic. Have you read a little bit about that? And what one sounds more familiar to you in your experience?

SPEAKER_00 7:09

Inner critic definitely feels more familiar.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

Yeah. Do you mind sharing a little bit what that inner critic looks like? Because I know I have friends here who either want to know, oh me too, or they're wondering, oh, maybe that's me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:23

So it's more like if I'm doing something, I would be thinking, like, Am I doing it the right way? Is this the best way of doing it? Oh, can I do it better? How should I do it? Or if I am being perfectionist because I like to call myself I'm a recovering perfectionist. So, you know, I don't want to be perfect and everything, and that's not what I'm achieving, but I want to do my best. So, but sometimes I struggle with setting the bar for myself if this is the best or not. And then, you know, having my tendency to be perfectionist, I'm like, okay, I don't want to be perfect, but I just want to do my best. So, you know, that's where my inner critic comes in.

SPEAKER_01 7:57

Yeah, absolutely. Well, thanks for sharing that because you're definitely not alone. And I get the privilege of coaching a lot of ones, and I think that comes for their motivation to be better. They see that there is room for improvement, and so they do want help and they see that you know it's worth investing in to get to get a handout.

SPEAKER_00 8:18

And it's also along with that comes with the desire to help others be the best version of themselves. So I think that's where the balance is as well. Like, although you want to be your best, you still want to help others be their best too.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Yeah, that's what you know, your line of work that really shines through and where you're excited to help other women break free of spiritual bondage, but you know, have freedom in their mental health, emotional health, spiritual health. So I love it. If you don't mind, I want to dive into a couple things here. One of them is you shared with me your background. And I think in light of the advent season, I wanted to touch on this topic because the majority of us have an experience of growing up in a Christian home that did holiday Christmas traditions, maybe you know, had a very formal advent, follow the church or liturgical calendar. Potentially it goes generations back where an observation of Christmas was happening for for generations, but you have a different story. So I would just love for you to share that a little bit. I know I'll probably have more questions than we have time for, but I just thought it would really be meaningful to highlight that here.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Sure. So for those of your listeners who don't know me, I am Jennifer James. I'm ethnically from Pakistan and I grew up in Dubai most of my life, and then I was in Toronto, Canada for about 11 years. So growing up, I am like a third generation Christian in my family because in Pakistan, only 2% of the population are different religions other than Muslims. So that includes some minority within the 2% who are Christians as well. So my parents, they were Christians as well, but we grew up in Dubai. And then around when I was a teenager, my dad was ordained as a pastor. So he was a pastor. So the traditions that we had in Dubai were we would get together, we would have like a Christmas Eve service or a Christmas Day service, or and then we will have meals together over there, or we will be taking like cakes and gifts to other people's home. So yeah, the traditionals were completely different than they are over here. Like over the here, there's rarely ever a Christmas Day service. So that was new to me when I came here. I'm like, oh, there's no Christmas Day service. That's weird. Uh-huh. Yeah. Over there, that was like a big thing. Yes. Because in Dubai, you're not really allowed to have uh meetings related to your faith in homes or in other buildings, other than assigned spaces that are called churches. And churches over here, like are so beautiful, but over there, sometimes they're just buildings, and there's just like one chapel, but the rest of them are like buildings that you have to have your services in. So it would be a hit and miss. Sometimes it would be in a chapel, or sometimes it would be in a building, but you would have to have your services in those appointed times. Otherwise, you cannot really have meetings. The rules were over there because the main religion in Dubai is Islam, basically, it's not Christianity, although they have you'll see Christmas trees around in all the malls and stuff, but you cannot openly preach Christianity or share about your faith.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

That was something that I was going to ask, is because you know, it feels like Christmas is a global thing. And so you did mention that maybe there was still some nod to the holiday of sorts, but I'm guessing you're not really decking the halls of your own home like we do in America or Canada in your experience.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Yes, we would be decorating our home, but we cannot really have like get togethers and really celebrate Christmas like people usually do over here, um, which would mean like singing songs or having prayer meetings. Basically, that's what it's referred to as over there in your home. So you would have to do that in a secluded or appointed space where you can practice your faith. So you can have get-togethers, but it's just that you cannot be, you know, singing carols or we would have some carol singing, but you have to be careful in how many people are coming in your home, or if you can get reported or not. So you have to still be careful if there are carol singing going on. Some churches you would do it, but they would keep it in like smaller groups because you're not supposed to have a lot of people doing that in your homes. And again, it's still considered practicing your faith outside of the appointed church buildings.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

So the stores are not playing Christmas music like they do here. That's not no, not all of them.

SPEAKER_00 12:38

Like some of them might be, but you wouldn't hear like things about Jesus in the stores over there.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

For sure. Wow. I have traveled overseas and in other parts of the world, but at one, it's been a long time. And two, I haven't um traveled over like the holiday season where that there would be such a stark contrast. I wonder too, especially a year ago, many of us were still feeling isolated because we couldn't, because of health concerns and maybe even relational division and things like that. But I would imagine there would be a sense of isolation when very few are practicing this tradition that you held dear.

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Yeah, so that's why the Christian community is quite close-knitted over there. So, you know, everything that you would we would do together would be with our Christian family, because that's how we had our support system. You know, all the Christians would be getting together. There's still a lot of churches over there, different cultures would have different languages, service. And um, at that time when I was there, there were about 63 churches over there. Oh wow. And right now, I'm pretty sure that it's over like a hundred right now that they do get together. So there are lots of Christian communities, but everybody just stays quite close-knit. And that's what we would do, like, you know, baking cakes together and taking it to other people's homes. The friends that we had were like all Christians in a community as well. So we would still do some traditional things. We just had to be careful in what we were doing. There was not like a lot of freedom of speech in terms of practicing your faith. Wow. But we were still happy because you know that was norm to us, right?

SPEAKER_01 14:10

Yes, it just is the stripping away, and I think that's why I wanted to spend a little bit of time here of stripping away all the extras. One that we put pressure on ourselves because culturally there's so much pressure to do all the things, and you know, maybe even family unknowingly. We just have put all this fluff on what Christmas is really all about. And I think you highlight here not only what Christian community could look like, but celebrating for the right reason and with the right intent, where our focus is really on Christ. And when we take all that away, um, how it can become really meaningful and special instead of such a harried, stressful time.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Yeah, over here, uh, what I felt like the more focuses on getting gifts together, you know, giving gifts to the family, getting the right gift over there. Honestly, we didn't really care if we were getting Christmas gifts or not. It just wasn't that that we wanted gifts. Well, another tradition that we had was like every time that we would have a special occasion, we would just get together as a family and go choose our fabrics and get our clothes tailored. That was just a normal thing for us, and that would be for every special occasion. Over here, it's considered as like a such a big thing, maybe a snobbish thing too. You know, you're getting custom tailor-made clothes, but over there, that's a norm, you know, that's how people wear their clothes. You buy your fabric and you get it tailored according to your choice. So that maybe was some of the splurges that we would have, but not necessarily exchanging gifts with each other. There was no pressure for that, and making sure that you know, this person is coming or that person is coming. And I guess over here the focus is also more about um Christmas dinner or Christmas Eve dinner. Um over there we did not have that. It was like an open house sort of a thing. We would be coming, people would be coming over with Christmas goodies, and or we would be going over for Christmas goodies, and wherever we would land, we would just end up having a meal together. So that was just a thing. It wasn't like a big deal that oh, people are gonna be at my house, we need to prepare this feast. My dad had this tradition that he would give away free food to all the church members who would come to the church on Christmas Day or Christmas Eve, one of those days, as just you know, just to serve and to bless the people who would be coming, because there were a lot of people who were coming from over there, they're called labor camps, uh, people who work like in the construction industry. It's very low-income areas that they come from, they don't have families around. Um, so basically just blessing them, you know, just so but the whole church would be open to the food that was being served. So that would be usually around lunchtime that we would have um lunch together as a whole family of God in the church.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

I love that. It's a beautiful representation of what hospitality can be when we strip again all the extras off where we fret and stew about having our house just right and having the most, you know, pristine meal and all those pieces instead of it being like, just come join and let's fellowship and enjoy what's meaningful. It's and remember the reason for the season. Amen. That's so good. Well, I want to do a little just a tiny rabbit trail just because I'm curious. I think you said you're third generation Christian. So, what uh led your grandparent to faith that you get to enjoy the legacy of freedom in Christ because I know it's remarkable.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

So there were missionaries who would come. So my mom, she was a nurse, so she was a missionary nurse as well. So her dad was a pastor as well, but that's how they learned about God is through missionaries coming into Pakistan and sharing about God and knowing about what it meant. And my dad from a very young age, he just you know loved God and praised God and just wanted to follow him. And it wasn't till he was in his what 50s that he was ordained as a pastor, and he recognized that you know that's what his calling is. And he is the most passionate person I've met who, you know, he's so passionate about God and just the way he would pray for you, even for a stranger, you can feel the passion and the spirit of God working through him.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

That's so encouraging to hear, no, because I know so many labor overseas and all over the world. And so sometimes it's you never know what seeds you're gonna plant, but to get to see someone's um faithful planting and sowing, uh reaping harvest of generations of followers, passionate believers, I think that's really, really awesome.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Yeah, it is. Yeah, we take that for granted, you know, that we do just have the freedom of practicing your faith and what you can share, what you cannot. And I've seen some things that legal issues and my dad would was questioned for uh because he was a he is a pastor there in Dubai. So, but everybody knows him. They he has been practicing for over 35 to 40 years in Dubai as a pastor. So the chaplains he who oversees all the churches over there, they respect him and they know him, and you know, they know that he has been faithful with them and the government as well. They know that he has been there and he hasn't uh broken any rules, so you know there's a lot of respect for them. But it takes a lot of commitment and grit. And I've seen the highs and lows that he has gone through, and that itself is a testimony for me.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

They are still there, they live there full time and they're just visiting at this point. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Wow. I'm meeting them after two and a half years because of the pandemic, everything was shut down.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

So right, right. Oh, I bet that's been so special to just uh especially miss the grandkids. Oh, yeah, and they're growing so much during these years and everything. Oh, well, I'm so so happy for you that you could be together and share this special time. I know kind of on that note, many of us have, especially the last two years, it has just been a stripping season. We have experienced loss. Uh, we're experiencing maybe a physical loss, maybe someone due to sickness or just you know, lost their life to various circumstances. And I, you know, it can rattle off, oh man, two handfuls of losses that have touched my life in one way or another. And so the reality is, I know for me personally as well, um, I'm entering into this holiday season with a huge loss in my immediate family. And it's one of those losses that it probably feels all the more painful because it's a choice that someone is is making. And so it's hard when they're could be available and could have relationship, except for they're choosing things that are creating the relationship to not be able to be available. And so I know I'm being ambiguous and and all of that. And there'll be a time and a season to share a little bit more of my story and probably not that long from now, but there's been grief that has really touched this season for me personally, and I'm not the only one. And I hear it again and again. And there is that I think there's the beauty of I've felt to carry hope because that's what the Advent season is all about, and carrying hope for restoration, redemption, that God is working behind the scenes and He's got something better than my idea of a happy ending, and he's working on our behalf. But I just felt like with your training, with your knowledge, with your love for the Lord, that you might have some words of wisdom for those who are traversing grief during this holiday season as our hearts are turned towards expectancy, but also the reminders of what's not there. How would you counsel us, if you will, uh, through this time?

SPEAKER_00 21:38

First of all, I want to appreciate the courage that you had to share what you shared because it takes a lot of courage to share, even though you're being ambiguous. I can hear it in your voice and see it in your eyes. There's a lot of pain there. Um, and a lot of us are going through different seasons of pain. But first of all, thank you for being courageous to say that it takes courage. Um, the first of all, I would say that we need To allow ourselves to grieve. It's a process. Processing grief definitely takes time and healing. We need to trust that grief is a part of the healing process. Because sometimes you know we think that grief, we shouldn't be experiencing grief, first of all. We question that why, Lord? Why me? Why am I going through this?

SPEAKER_02 22:19

Totally.

SPEAKER_00 22:19

Um, but in all of that, one scripture that gives me hope is everything happens for good to those who love God and to those who are called according to his plan and purpose. So no matter what we have gone through or what we are going through, if we just surrender our grief to him and allow God to come into our life, I think that can bring us a lot of comfort. One of the roles of the Holy Spirit is a comforter, right? So but until we surrender our grief to God, I don't think the healing can come because sometimes we just want to hold on to that. That we get protective of our grief, do no, I am hurt, which is true. We are hurt. I want to stay in this moment, and that's okay. Allow yourself to process that grief. There's a time and the healing is going to come, but remember to stay on the course. Sometimes it may look like that you're feeling a range of emotions, right? Sometimes you're feeling joy, sometimes you're feeling sadness, sometimes you're feeling guilt. But it's okay. Absolutely. You are gonna feel all those range of emotions. But allow yourself to process the emotions, to go through the emotions, don't rush the process. And remember that everybody processes grief differently. So how you might be feeling and processing grief would look like different from what how I do it. And some people just avoid it, and some people uh turning into eating unhealthy or just binge eating. So everybody's different, and culturally things are different too. When I coach or counsel people, you know, that's something that I have to remember as well, what culture background they're coming from, and how much disclosure is good disclosure or bad disclosure. And sometimes people don't want to share about everything that they have gone through. And sometimes what I'm seeing personally in my social realm, there's grief in relationships as well. That relationships have been broken, there's hurt, there's separation going on, so there's grief in there too. So, again, all of us have gone through grief or are going through grief, but just remember to allow yourself to process grief. So I have about seven things that I want to share. This is amazing. So good. Keep going, condense my counseling session here. Great. So, second, I want to say that set up healthy boundaries with others and for yourself. So that might look like you know, around the holidays, we get so many invitations. It might mean sometimes you have to say no. Then I'm sorry, I just don't feel like it, and I'm not gonna be participating in that. And just letting them know this is a rough season I'm going through, and I just want to be mindful of where I want to be or what I'm gonna be doing or how I want to spend my time and for yourself too. So that's the reason I say setting the boundaries for yourself as well. Because sometimes it's hard to say no, especially we as women, you know, we want to do all the things, you know, do all the cookie exchange, do this, do that, but connect with yourself and say that do I really want to do this? Do I feel like doing this? If the answer is no, then don't do it. You know, that's the conclusion that I've come to that my house is not gonna look great, it's not decorated. Okay, so what? You know, the fact is that we can still make memories, everything doesn't have to be perfect. It's how my kids are gonna see me, how I'm behaving and dealing in these in this season that is important. So just keep your priorities in check. So third, I was gonna say is find a way to honor your loved ones. So this might be more for people who have physically lost somebody, but some of the things that I was gonna suggest might be appropriate for anybody who's grieving with different things. So, first, I think it's easy to make like a memory box with photos and notes, just so that you know you you feel like you're doing something and honoring your loved one during this special time, or write a letter sharing everything that you would have liked to say to them um during this time. And that can be a very emotional experience, but that can also be a very liberating experience because you have shared your heart, you're you know, you're not holding all your feelings and your emotions in there. So I think that's quite healing. It's like journaling, but you're writing a letter addressed to this particular person or persons, yeah. Lighting a candle in their honor, place a bouquet on the holiday table in their memory, or placing an ornament on the tree, playing their favorite music, planning a meal based on their favorite foods, or have a moment of silence to honor them. It's just that you know in your heart that you're memoring them, you're thinking about them, and you're honoring what they mean to you. So just stay in touch with that. And uh four, I was gonna say create new traditions for people to have their spouse with them, let's say if they have lost their spouse, it means that you would have to create a new tradition. So, what is that gonna look like for you? It could be that uh you invite a buddy, you know, to go with you to have a holiday meal, or you just um do something fun, plan something different, but know that you can be creative, right? You just don't have to feel like, oh, this was my tradition, I'm used to doing this, and I want to continue doing this, but I don't have the person with me to do it, right? So that can trigger uh hurtful feelings and emotions. So instead, create new traditions that will bring you positive feelings. Number five, surround yourself with people who love you, genuinely care about you, and are there to support you. And when I say that, I mean that surrounding yourself with the people who really you can feel wrong with, right? If you feel like crying, you can cry. If you feel like, you know, just venting, you can vent. Because that just puts another pressure on if you just have to put off this mask and facade that you know everything is okay. I'm perfect. I've experienced all this loss, but I can still go on with it. So just surrounding yourself, because I think that's another thing sometimes women tend to do is isolate themselves when they're going through a hard time, or it depends on personality types too. I tend to do that if I'm going through a stressful time. Um, I just like to isolate myself. But I've come to terms with the fact that that's not a healthy way of doing things. I need to reach out and I know that there are people around me, and it boils down to what are the limiting beliefs that you have in your head. You know, do you feel like you can do everything on your own? You feel alone? There's a lot to process over there, but just you know, seek out. Um, number six, I was gonna say is ask for help because sometimes we can be around people and they don't know that we need help, right? That is so true. That I need help, and it might be that you need professional help, so reach out to people. There are like special uh grief counselors. So if you are going through a grieving process, seek out grief counselors. You they specialize in grieving, um, or just you know, reach out for a counselor in your area, and it might look different for different things, or just reaching out and being honest with a friend that you know, this is a hard season for me. I was wondering if we can do something together without you know stepping on your boundaries during the holiday season because everybody gets busy, right? Yes, and last but not the least, number seven, take care of yourself because nobody else is gonna take care of you the way you can. And remembering that God has a plan for you, no matter what loss you have gone through, you still have a purpose, you're still here, and God is gonna take care of you, He's holding you in the palm of your hands. You are a child of God. The scriptures say that we are the apple of his eyes. You know, to me, that's just so amazing that the creator of this universe knows me by name, and he's holding me in the palm of his hands. So it's just it's just amazing to know that what our identity is in Christ. And sometimes when we are going through hard times, we just need to really remind ourselves that you know what I am important to God, and no matter what I've gone through, God can turn that into a testimony. But we need to do our part and just trust in the process.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Wow, Jenny, that is phenomenal. All of those things that you listed, I feel like I have been on the other side. Like I feel counseled right now, and also going, that is exactly what I know other women need to hear and are really gonna benefit if you can just take the time, write these down, like put these in action, and I think you will find just the Lord carrying you through in such a beautiful way, and he's gonna carry you through whether you do it exactly right or not. But I I think these are just ways we invite the body of Christ to be the hands and feet. So that way the Lord can, you know, be an extension of himself through the Christian community in all those different ways.

SPEAKER_00 30:53

It's hard to allow God to work in us and through us when we are putting ourselves and God in our box, right? So that's what that's the first thing I started off with that we need to surrender our pain that we're going through into God's hands too. Because I think that's where that's why I applauded the fact that you shared your difficult journey that you're going through, because it takes courage to step out of the boat and say that okay, here I am, I'm going through a tough time and I need help. It's hard, but I know that when we do that, not only does he use that to help others, but he heals us in the process too.

SPEAKER_01 31:28

Jenny, I know that my friends have been blessed by this conversation. And I would just say, all of you who are listening, if this has blessed you or if you know someone who really needs to hear this, send it this uh podcast through text or through social media, share it because I know that a lot of people are in this boat similar to me of dealing with some loss or grief. And so we just need to, you know, link arms and help each other through this. But before we go, where can my friends find you to keep the conversation going, maybe to hear some of your podcasts, you know, all the good ways to follow you.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

My company's name is Holy Mom. That's W-H-O-L-Y-M-O-M. And it's the same tags um on Instagram and Facebook, which is holy mom. And my website is holym.com. Um, and that's it. This is a spot where they can find me. And my podcast is called the Holy Mom Chat Podcast, which is available everywhere. Podcasts are.

SPEAKER_01 32:24

I love the name. That's why we kind of got connected. Yeah, like a like-minded sister in Christ. I can't wait to chat with her. So thank you. Thank you so much, Jenny. And I hope you have a beautiful Christmas season with your family.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Thank you for having me. And can I just share one thing before I go? This is like a Christmas song, but it's not a Christmas carol. But I think that everybody going through a hard time. I just love this Christmas song. Please just listen to it. It's called Um Breath of Heaven by Amy Grant. So the lyrics that stand out to me are breath of heaven, hold me together, be forever near me, breath of heaven, lighten my darkness, pour over me your holiness, for you are holy, breath of heaven. So I just want to applaud your listeners to stay the course, remain faithful, and trust God that He's going to bring peace, comfort, and joy and healing through this process that we are going through. Happy holidays to everyone and many blessings.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

Friend, I do pray that you feel equipped and encouraged to face this holiday with hope, no matter the loss that you face. I think that you'll enjoy learning more from Jennifer James here over the coming months, not only the information that she already has there for you, but also for what is to come. I hope that you will find out more from her on Instagram or Facebook, or as she mentioned, holymom.com in her podcast. Let her know that you appreciated those these seven tips that she shared today. It would also really mean a lot to me to have you share this episode with any friend who needs this encouragement. You can do that through text, social media, or even when you leave a five-star review. Your support is truly the best gift that you can give to me this year. Now, next week, Krista Harden, a fellow Enneagram 7 and Enneagram coach, is gonna share about her new planner. She has a brand new Enneagram and marriage planner that you will want to get and gift this season. I can't wait to share the conversation. It was so fun, and for you to check out the benefits of using a planner that really creates more intentionality in your life. So until next time, continue to pursue perspective, purpose, and plans for a wholehearted advent season.