Creating for the Glory of God: Nikki Anders on Journey to Bethlehem, Perseverance, and Faith-Filled Art

In this special re-release, I sit down with actress, producer, songwriter, and creative powerhouse Nikki Anders for a beautiful, Spirit-led conversation on creating art that honors God, no matter the outcome. From her journey co-writing Journey to Bethlehem to navigating motherhood and music, Nikki shares what it means to persevere in the entertainment industry while staying rooted in faith. 

We talk about calling, creativity, and how every step (even the ones that seem like detours) becomes part of something bigger in God's story. Whether you're a dreamer, artist, or simply craving depth this Christmas season, this episode will minister to your soul.

Watch Journey To Bethlehem here on Amazon*

Get Your Enneagram Gift Guide and Advent Podcast Playlist- https://www.simplywholehearted.com/enneagram-gift-guide

*affilate link

The Enneagram can name your patterns. It can't set you free from them. That's the difference between insight and transformation, and it's the whole focus of this summit.

Learn more, check out the speakers & get your free seat!

https://www.simplywholehearted.com/wholehearted-2026

Transcript

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SPEAKER_01 1:40

Plans, parties, and presents. These days always seem to blur together, don't they? But what is Christmas and Advent season really all about? Well, for you, the multi-passionate woman who's seeking purpose, Advent is an invitation to take a sacred pause, to refocus on God, on you, and on your people. Welcome to the 9th annual Wholehearted Advent Podcast Series, sharing wisdom and transformation for the moments that matter most. Today, look at you sporting your hat.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Well, you know, it it covers a myriad of ills under it underneath. Yes. I don't have to do much. It takes about a third of the time to get ready.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

That's fantastic. I cannot pull off the look, otherwise, I would employ it regularly because it is really nice.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

It is really nice. I have a collection that's growing.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

That's awesome. That's so great. I have a friend who texts me regularly to say, which hat should I be packing with me? It's not if it's a which one.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

Which one? It's hard because you take them on certain vacations and they come back ruined because you try to do all the things, you stuff it. Yes. But sometimes it just will trash.

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Yeah, that's what she said too. I'm like, hey, how about that one there on the closet? And she's like, nope, won't travel because it won't come back the same. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

And the handbox just isn't cool anymore.

SPEAKER_01 3:18

Yeah, that's right. That's right. I don't know. You should maybe bring it back. I think it's pretty quaint. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

I could try.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

Are you holding up okay with all this pre-launch interview and all the things?

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Yes. Doing my best.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Juggle. You know how it is when you're one at one part of the day, you're just mom. At one part of the day, you're just a songwriter. And the other part of the day, you're what you know how it is.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Yes. And I'm guessing if it's anything like everyone else, you might be launching one thing, but in the background, you're at the formation of something else or in the middle. So it's not like you get to just be one thing. I am so excited to talk about this because I did get the sneak peek full version. And I had to watch it on my computer because you could, of course, you couldn't airplay it or anything because of all the privacy. But my two teenage daughters ended up, well, I just was like, I don't know about you guys, but I want to watch this before my link expires. Come and watch if you want. I had full sound on and it pulled them in. And they were they peeking in kind of thing. And then they came and sat with me. And it was just so fun because yeah, they loved it. And my oldest in particular, it's coming out when she's visiting her Mimi. And she already has plans to go see it with her in the theaters. And I just I love that. I think that is so special. So sweet.

SPEAKER_00 4:48

No, that's amazing because they didn't really weren't sure about it. And then they got pulled in by the right things, the things that we hope that will pull people in that may not think they would be interested in it in the first place. Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 5:01

Well, I grew up in a family who's loved theater and musicals, and I've attempted, I'm not ever going to go down any sort of vein that direction, but I have a family who's very talented. And it's been fun for them to see the rise again of the musical. And I grew up watching all the old classics and musicals, and that was my family culture. I've married a guy who it was not at all. And he's like, What is this? Right. And it can be so different if that wasn't part of your experience. But I love that it's the thing. And it's definitely, especially these last, I don't know, has it been eight years or something? I feel like the musicals are really on the rise. And just love, love that the music, musical is touching the spiritual and the biblical. And it just was so well done. I'm excited that you're catching all the things that excite us. Oh, good, good, yes. I'm curious to know. I know you were going to be maybe asked ahead of time by Nicole, but if you knew anything about Enneagram, have you has it caught onto your circle of friends? Tell me what you think.

SPEAKER_00 6:13

Oh, yeah. Enneagram. Well, the personality tests in general have definitely made their rounds, not only through my friend group, but my kids actually are interested in so fun. And they, my kids were both into the MBTI. And then I, of course, the Enneagram now has made their way, made its way into their lives. And that's a great dinner conversation. It is a starter. Like, okay, where do you land? And just diving into personality is such a fascinating topic. So yeah, it's definitely something we're all interested in.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

That's awesome. For you, where have you landed, if you will, to use that same terminology, which I love? It's I'm always like, what are you trying on right now? What is your leading type? Because I'm of the thought that I really think that we hold all nine types because we are made in the image of our creator who is all of those and more, right? But there's one that tends to lead the charge, lead the motivations, lead the desires.

SPEAKER_00 7:13

And I do think that at any given point in time, I feel like there are stages to our lives. Like I always go back to one thing that my kids and I discuss a lot. Well, before kids, I was this person. And after kids, I'm this person. And of course, you don't really, I'm sure it doesn't happen for everybody, but for I'm sure a lot of people that like big life-changing events can form different parts of your personality and really bring that to the forefront. Yeah. So there's is there there's one called, I think it's a number, is it number four? Is that the it's tends to be the individualist, yes, exactly. Okay, yeah. That's I think my lead horse. Uh-huh. And was it I forget what my second, my my wing was. I think my I'm not really sure. You have to do a three or a five, right? Because it's the Yeah, good job. Yes, that's right. The number on either side. You got it. Yep. And I think it might have, I can't remember actually. I do know my four though.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

That's awesome. I it makes a lot of sense. And I think to your point, because I've coached so many women who have gone through the motherhood years, but the career years and all the things before and after. And we've really discovered that there's this element and it's a kind of a fancy word, but called subtypes of each type. And that has really helped explain that passage when we felt like we've lost ourselves and then at the same time rediscovered ourselves. And there's something about that gives us a little bit more insight on what's going on because becoming a mom is amazing and wonderful, but it's also slightly traumatic. And so, right. So there's all of that. And I do think while we have our dominant type, we have two other dominant in the intelligence centers that kind of give explanation back to our history of family of origin, or maybe our even our career experience, if it was really influential, that helps give a more holistic picture of our life story because it's right, it's not linear, we're not one-dimensional. There's so many facets to who we are.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

So it's so fun. True. It's really fascinating. And you could just, well, there's so much time you can spend diving down into it and just swimming in it for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

It's true. And to your point, I've loved having this resource as I'm raising teenagers. I've had it had the tool for a long time, but in particular, in these, as we're beginning to launch, I'm like, okay, this is really helpful because how I kind of let out that rope or let out the their boundaries are getting bigger, how that looks is so different and individualized. And it's helping me not perfectly, but it's helping me get a little bit why there's a unique experience with each kid that ultimately keeps me in my knees.

SPEAKER_00 10:14

Of course. And that's to me what's been helpful. I feel like I am better at seeing those things in my kids than I am in my own self because you have perspective. And so you can look upon them and see, okay, these are this is how you're made and what you may struggle with, what you are natural proclivities and things like that. So it's been a good parenting tool, I think.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

Yeah, absolutely. I also think it's a great screenwriting and book writing tool for any sort of fiction work in particular, or even if we're doing historical and we want to try to help form a solid what would they do type of thing if we don't have information. So I'm all about it. I like to dabble in writing fiction here and there, and I definitely sneak it in and it's been fun.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

It's such a great tool for all sorts of things, right? Yeah, that's perfect character development. You've that's exactly what it is.

SPEAKER_01 11:11

Especially if you wanting, if you're wanting to make sure you're not writing about yourself or you can't insert what you would do, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:18

That's what you have to do a deep dive on the motivations of each character. And then even when you're trying to digest a book fully, I know that my my older son enjoys going to whatever he reads. He likes to try to find out their personality types of each main character. So it helps internalize more deeply what you're reading, or if it's a fiction.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Yeah. I've done my fair share of movies or Enneagram to the movies episodes, inviting my friends to analyze the characters because you gotta have some fun. It's been great. Yeah. Like a fun book club situation.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Yes, Unite Club situation.

SPEAKER_01 11:56

Exactly. Exactly. Well, I want to talk to you specifically about your gift of music because I've shared here at the beginning of the conversation your incredible resume. And it is paragraphs long. When you read it on paper, it's I abbreviated it. It's amazing, it's amazing. Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Don't be ashamed. It's like amazing. You know what? My my dad just texted me and said, Hey, do you have a bio that somebody could look and see your resume, your history, basically? I'm like, Yeah, it's really outdated, but it just shows that we've been doing this a long time. Yes. It's partly just the nature of a life. Very few people now hold the same position in life for their the length of their adulthood, right? And my career has taken so many, even though it's been in entertainment, it's taken so many versions. And you try everything, you do a lot of stuff because you have to make a living. And thankfully, because it's always a challenge and you're self self-employed, you have to become skilled at a variety of things and just keep trying to keep creating. And I have this not my main skill, I say, is just perseverance. Because that's really like at the base of all things. Say I have the my biggest talent is in not giving up.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Nikki, I am so glad you brought this up because that was the same exact takeaway I had with looking at your resume. It was going, this girl has been in this in the long haul. And I have conversations with entrepreneurs all the time. I coach coaches, and that's a lot of my focus. And I have said, like a realtor is all about location, location, location. Entrepreneurship is about perseverance, perseverance, perseverance. And it's never linear. It is a squiggly line, it is all over the place. And to your point, look at what you've been able to do. And I'm sure what where you went in is not where you thought you were going to end up. But here you are with such incredible projects.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

You know, it's fascinating to always look back and okay, where did I think I would end up as an adult, like as a real adult? My trajectory started as a teenager when I thought I was gonna sing for be a recording artist. And I did achieve that goal early on, but based on personality types, right? That plus different events, you realize this is actually not a good fit. I just I do obviously I still use my voice, I still sing, yeah, but being more in the background is definitely more my comfort zone. As you are, you know, exposed to the industry, you just like I said, you keep creating and trying. And my passion for songwriting really started to take the front seat. And my passion for at any given time, I know there was a point at which my passion was for young girls who were starting out in the industry, who are exposed to a studio recording studio environment with lots of darkness and men and you know, weird situations. Uncomfortable, yeah, uncomfortable. And it was our my husband and our my focus to really shepherd these young girls and make sure that they with a married couple were safe, we're not gonna do make their life scary. And so that was something that led us to write a lot of songs for these like high school musical and all those things back in the day, and that opened the door to the next thing, glee being a big thing. And that was really something because that was the time of life where I was a young mom. I was pregnant during the first season of Glee, and yet I could still sing in the background and be as fat and pregnant as I wanted to be, and just sit on a chair with my feet propped up and still sing. So I didn't have to um put my makeup on and be in front of a camera.

SPEAKER_01 16:13

Yeah, that had to have been a relief. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

But just the experience of doing that and working on a show for that many years gave us a lot of insight as to what works, what doesn't work, and a passion for our own musicals. I also am very much, I feel like our stories are similar in that I grew up watching the classics. The Rogers and Hammers Day musicals are still like the top to me. So that was always a passion of mine. And I'm glad that I just can't believe that we get to do it our do our own. I hope that this stands the test of time. I hope the song stands the test of time, but I just am feeling fortunate that we got to do it at all. It's a massive undertaking.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

It is, and I really hope that our friends, some of the takeaway here is that it really is about not hustle, but the perseverance and the staying with it and being willing to pivot and create a little bit differently or outside of the box. And I bet we could talk for hours about all of the stories and write the different steps of your journey to where you are. But just beautiful, beautiful to hear a snippet of it. I'm like, I'm so curious, and I'm like, oh, like, where can I learn more? Where can I find out more? Because it's this is so, so good. Because I know that ultimately this is just another one of those steps. Like this experience is maybe a culmination at some level, but also just part of the bigger picture. So, what was it for you that led you to go, okay, this project here, this journey to Bethlehem, I think this has our name on it, or it's calling my name, if you will.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

So, being a lover of musicals, when we started writing for the Disney musicals and things like that back in the day, once we started getting a taste of what that was like, we definitely had a desire to do our own, right? And then Christmas came, I don't even remember this. It's been a long time ago now, right? Maybe 15 years ago. And we were at my parents' house in Iowa, and we were discovering where all these Christmas movies, but Christmas and music go hand in hand to me. You know, you're singing all these great songs when you want to get in the Christmas spirit, you put on a Christmas playlist, right? And where's the Christmas musical that's current? A lot of meals being made, nothing truly Christmas. That came to mind, and then also looking at the Christmas movies that were available. And like there's a lot of great Christmas movies, but none that are telling the traditional Christmas story. So it was, and that that was the moment that Christmas where we decided we should write this. We actually had a different name for it at the time. But my husband worked on the treatment for the film in general, and we started working on like little snippets of songs just in a living room. And I have the original little snippets, and only one of the 15 has made it to the final movie. Oh, but isn't that the case? Hey, just hey, just having one is pretty cool because that's a long place. Oh, that is what a journey, my goodness. And so when it's journey, the fact that it became journey to Bethlehem is almost um a metaphor for the journey that it took just to get to this point. I bet.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

I think you bring up an important piece too, because to the creatives, to the fellow creator, you you may like walk away from having created something and it didn't have the outcome or didn't go where you thought it would, and you think, what a waste of time, or it could be tempted. And I let this be that point right now. It's not, it all builds onto something, it's all for something, right? And you just never know.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

That is so true, and that is such a piece of wisdom that I I wish could you could impart to a lot of people is that when you're creating, I know there's a tendency, well, if that didn't work, rip it up, throw it away. But there's something that you learn from that experience, and sometimes there's even a portion of it that will make the final product, but you keep coming back to it, you keep tweaking, you keep building, you keep giving that time and the distance of perspective too. You can look at it with fresh eyes and realize, oh, that's good, that maybe not so good. And it's all part of the process.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

It is. I've only been in this specific field for seven years, and but already there are some things that have come full circle that years went by and I hung onto it for whatever reason. And I'm also I'm a seven, I tend to like save all the pieces of paper and all the Google Docs, and I have three different drives, like it's a little bit out of control. But but to that point, there's been enough times already in just this short window regarding this specific at a stage of my career, whatever we're gonna call it. But it's going, oh, that that thread ended up developing and weaving into other things. And but I needed life experience or I needed this message to have gone before me, or whatever it is, or lived it out to to really make sure I believed it before I spoke it. And yeah, so I again we could be talking about this for a while because there's so much there. There is so much. Right, right. I'm actually you talked about doing music in your living room. So I gotta ask, any of your kids pick up the musical desire or skills, or is this kind of it's your thing?

SPEAKER_00 21:49

That's really uh tricky question. They both my boys love music and they're so moved and driven by it. They are the one musically talented, but the passion for them is more in listening. But they love movie scores, they love movie scores, they love classical music, and they use that a lot in their daily lives, just in their just walk, they wear their airpox. But they wear them. Um, but they I think that music you have to have that passion, you have to practice all the time. And we're still sitting on that element.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

It's called discipline, and I am yeah one of those didn't have the discipline, but I'll tell you what, there's nothing like a good film score to keep me writing and creating content for my community. And I like there's nothing better to me. That's the perfect day. Getting to write and listen to my favorite scores. It's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Yeah, it really is motivating, it can put you in a mood and it does affect your flow for sure.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Oh, absolutely. Most all of it, I think ultimately comes from the creator himself. But there are certain ones in particular that I'm like, that just touches your spirit in a different way. Which, and I'm not just saying this. I the as my girls and I watched the film and the listened, took in the score and the words, we were getting goosebumps. Like as in a good mood, and already my oldest who were very similar, she was like, Okay, where can I get this album? I can't wait to listen to that and listen to, and she totally will. So there's so much I want to ask about it, but maybe the some of the inspiration or some of the story behind and the creating of it. Again, going back to your living room many years ago, but there's so Much in between that leads into it.

SPEAKER_00 23:41

I know that obviously we have the inspiration of this the this Bible story itself, right? What actually is in the word. So there are certain things that we need to uh write about based on that story. And then the screenplay that my husband wrote, we then mapped out where should where are the emotional pinpoints, right? Where does the character feel a certain something? What needs to be conveyed emotionally? Because that's really like at the heart of music is this emotion. And it I know it's a an element to musicals that I think is so important, just to have a song for a song's sake or just to have a song to move the story forward, is um, I think it's frivolous in really quality musicals. But in the best ones, I think they use it to pinpoint an emotion and to highlight what that character is experiencing. So that was something that we would break down the main points in the screenplay. And I know one in particular for me personally is the Mary's big ballad, which is Mother to a Savior and King, because that was something that is first of all, really tricky territory because you're trying to put yourself in the shoes of this young girl, and she happens to be the mother of God. And so you're already walking on eggshells, but you have to really try and get in that place. And so that was a moment of honestly, just a lot of prayer for me that I would feel get her story told through the song and what she was feeling at the moment. Uh just but part of it's creative. What would I how would I have been feeling based on what we know about Mary and what's been written in the Bible and about Mary? How would I feel? And given the context of the time in history with zero BC, the culture of the time, she was going through some scary territory and test of faith and fear of shaming her family, and fear of believing herself, fear of believing in God, a lot of fear, right? And she needed that the only thing that could help her was to just like a cry out to God. And so that's that particular song was, I think, a lot leap, it was a lot of divine inspiration, quite honestly. That and so that one was probably, yeah, that one really was special.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

I did tear up because I felt it. And I love Mary's song in Luke. And I think it's in chapter two, right? Luke chapter two in the account. And I love that you went there. I think that was bold and daring, but it captured you, it's incredible. It really is. I felt transported to that the emotion of what she would have. And that's what I was crying over to think, oh yeah, the mother of our savior. Like it, it just made it so much more real. Again, I grew up as a pastor's kid. How many times have I heard it? How many times have I read the story? This was a whole new experience. And I've been so privileged to get to see other renditions, if you will, of some performed element of this story. But this was like next level where that transportation did happen, where you're feeling what the character is feeling. So beautifully.

SPEAKER_00 27:15

You want people to really feel there's so many reasons to make the movie, right? And you want people to feel things that maybe they've heard the story forever and ever. And it's never really hit deeply. I don't know. It's really good to hear that you're you experienced what we hope other people will experience too.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Yeah. Well, you've done a good job. And yeah, I'm glad I can affirm it. And I have no doubt you'll be hearing it a lot. I hope so. We'll see. Yes, I can't wait. I can't wait for my friends to get to experience what I've experienced. And okay, there's two more questions that I want to ask. One, just talk a minute about working with your husband on a project like this, because that can be like really terrible or really wonderful. And yet it seems like God put you all together. I mean, perfect gift set at like pretty great.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Yes, we do have a chemistry. And it's funny because we met while we were touring on the road. So he was a bass player and I was in a band. And so we started our whole journey as a couple working together, and we've done that, and that's something that works for us. But we do tend to, it's because you're so comfortable with one another, you do fight more. And that's just something that we've learned that the more we're fighting, the better product we're getting. So it's like, who else can you be that honest with if you don't like something? Because for us, it's a collaborative experience. We are writing the song together. If somebody says something and I don't like it, or I've come up with a melody and nobody and the other person doesn't like it, you're gonna be like hemming and hauling, oh, it was good, but and then there's all this wasted time. Why? Just dive in and say, I don't like it. And so that's what ends up happening with us.

SPEAKER_01 29:10

I bet it's like there's no holding back, no people pleasing. It's exactly what you think. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

So it's tricky, it's tricky territory, and the older we get and the more we do it, we might be maybe a little harsher than we were at the beginning, but I think it's getting good, it's getting good results. It's just the key. Once we're done, can we just go to the kitchen and have dinner and put it to the side? And now we're just normal husband, wife.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

That would take some intentionality and discipline for sure to table it. It's bad enough. I talk about work on date night, and I have to, and my husband has nothing to do with um, he's in forestry, and so it's we're not talking the same language. So I can imagine that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

It's a language, like each slice of life has its own little language, and so that's right.

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Yes. Oh, I love it. Obviously, this energy of you all working together, the momentum has been a good thing and it's growing and getting better. What is maybe either a special behind the scene situation or just about the movie itself that you just you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_00 30:21

Okay, so something interesting is that this movie, for some reason, we were here. It's a Bible musical. It's a hard sell for it was it has been and was a hard sell for a lot for people to grasp and think that it was worthy of doing it all. And we've gone through a lot of really close calls through the last 10 years. It's been with one up to the line and then back again. But this time, what we recognized is that it's not a big budget movie, although but what happened is that so many people came onto the film and it was almost like out of our control. There's a lot of things that happened that made the movie amazing that were not typical for a first-time director like my husband, a smaller budget. All these things were very uh unique that we would able to be able to get Antonio Banderas, that we were able to get the mix engineer, that we were able to get certain production company and locations in Spain, uh beautiful locations where like uh Lawrence of Arabia was shot. There's some like unique, miraculous things that we recognize would not have happened just by our little tiny hands here. So we I think that's been fun to see and fun to watch. We feel like we're we're just the hands and feet, right? And then I think just even now going forward, we just have to like I feel like when the movie was being shot in Spain, I think the biggest takeaway that was the biggest blessing to my husband was that people hadn't had an experience like that on set before. It was so enjoyable, it was warm, it was comfortable, and nobody was fighting, it was safe. It was all these things that people walked away saying this is the best film experience I've ever had. So something that also, you know, we just felt like it was in the right spirit that it was done.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

That's incredible, Nikki. That is it's a but God kind of story. And then you had alluded to creating that safe place, if you will, for young girls in early in their career. And you've obviously you and your husband have carried that mantle to have that transported on set in a foreign country, you know, out of element and obviously to create a different experience than what others had gone through before. That is just so cool. That's worth celebrating.

SPEAKER_00 33:09

I'm celebrating, we're yeah, celebrate the other, the different victories, once nobody sees. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:16

Yes. And yeah, that's a seven, it feels like always gets labeled as the party or really easy to celebrate. And I am the like, hey no, actually, sometimes it's really hard because when our outcome, and that's partly its culture thing, right? If the outcome doesn't match our expectations, we tend to avoid celebration or skip over it or feel undeserving. And I've been really had this message on my heart with the community is to say, no, celebration is actually a discipline and celebration is an invitation that we, it doesn't, there isn't an outcome that actually is connected to it. It's just doing the thing and then seeing what happens with it and celebrating doing the thing, or to your point, right? All the little miracles along the way that you can go back. I don't know, at least how it works for me is going, I at least did what the Lord asked me to do, and he was in it. So whatever happens, because that's the most important thing.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

That's huge, huge wisdom and advice there. Celebration is a discipline. And we're, I think we're supposed to do that, even like when it's not the expectation. That doesn't meet the expectations. That's fake. That's good.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

And take that for myself if you don't mind. Absolutely, please. I think about how that has to be in the culture and the industry you're in. Yeah, that that'd be not typical at all to be able to lean into that. So take it, run with it. Maybe you can let that information coming on this weekend, in fact. Oh, awesome. Okay, my last little question. What is your favorite ornament or Christmas decoration that it you have to have it out? Otherwise, it's just not Christmas business.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

I can tell you it's not one exactly, but it's a collection of ornaments that my mom made when we were little kids growing up. And she made them, she is a great seamstress, and she would make these cute little ornaments, and they were on our tree when I was a little girl, all through the time I was growing up. And then when I moved out, she gave me a little shoebox full of these ornaments. And they're to me, it's just that's Christmas because Christmas is so nostalgic in it in itself, and it just brings back all the Christmases past and the feels of when you were little, and that's Christmas to me.

SPEAKER_01 35:39

Oh, Nikki, what a great answer! I love it. I'm visualizing whatever it is very similar to all those made of filth or velvet, and oh, they're just simple and cute. I love it. Ah, precious. I don't know. There, those kind of things even smell like something that you know is just it takes us right back. So Nikki, this has been an honor and a joy and so much fun. I hope that you've had fun as well. Thank you for sharing with my friends and thank you for doing the work because I believe it's gonna bring a lot of joy and uh like depth of joy and inspiration to so many.

SPEAKER_00 36:20

Thank you. I appreciate you having me today. And also just I love that you just said that the depth of joy, because that's something I keep saying, and people are like, what does that mean? But I'm glad that you get it because you just said it. Because it is a different kind of joy, it's a deeper meaning joy. So thank you.

SPEAKER_01 36:42

As you go, friend, may you slow down, savor the moments that matter most, and make space for Christ to meet you right where you are. And if you need a little more support this season, you can download the free wholehearted gift giving guide or book a clarity call to help you find peace and presence in your own story. Merry Christmas! And remember, your wholehearted story is still being written.